For People Who Think Hayward's Decision was Predetermined

[Handlogten's Heros]

All this shows is that Hayward hadn't told Boston he was committed to them, which of course would have been a horrible idea considering the effect it would have had on his leverage in contract negotiations. I don't think us Jazz fans think Hayward had truly committed to Boston until close to the end. The analogy I would use is that of a bachelor with three girls chasing him. He knows all along he strongly prefers girl A, and that if everything goes as planned he will be choosing her. But he keeps girls B and C within arms length for security reasons. You never know what could happen and it's good to keep your options open. Plus it's not like he wouldn't enjoy being with girls B and C, just that he would greatly prefer girl A.

If they weren't sure they were getting Hayward then why not get Butler for the discount he was traded for? I think they knew he was coming or were at least relatively certain and that is why they worried about them meshing. Also didn't want to rock the boat too much before they got the guy they wanted/knew they were getting.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The East lost Paul Millsap, Jimmy Butler, and Paul George. That's 12 games that just got way easier for the Celtics. Plus they only play the Cavs 3 times this year. I think they win at least 53. 57 is easily reachable for them.

 

[Spinoza]

Top 3 does not equal 57 wins. They have done some statistical modeling and the conference adds maybe 3 wins. Playoff seeding though is obviously a strength. I'm just not convinced they will be better than last year and I will absolutely put my money where my mouth is if I am in Nevada at some point this month.

Yea, I put them in the 50-55 win range. I agree they're not better than they were last year (I personally think they got worse), and I also think they outperformed a bit last year thanks to Thomas' unexpectedly good season. However, the East is just god awful this year. It's the Cavs, the Celtics, and that's it. The rest of the teams are barely worthy of discussion. Although I will say when you have a conference that weak there's bound to be a sleeper team that will win 50 games out of nowhere.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yea, I put them in the 50-55 win range. I agree they're not better than they were last year (I personally think they got worse), and I also think they outperformed a bit last year thanks to Thomas' unexpectedly good season. However, the East is just god awful this year. It's the Cavs, the Celtics, and that's it. The rest of the teams are barely worthy of discussion. Although I will say when you have a conference that weak there's bound to be a sleeper team that will win 50 games out of nowhere.

The Raptors and Wizards are still pretty good teams too, but after that, that's pretty much it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I see the points on the east being worse... I just think they have issues to start the season with so many new parts and they have some interesting/challenging personalities in that locker room and it could go sideways in a hurry. Bradley and IT are locker room leaders... Morris can be okay (he's about loyalty so if his name comes up in trade rumors he could become an issue). Kyrie is tough to peg... kind of a loner and Gtime is a bit weird by NBA standards. Smart and Brown are a bit reactive/abrasive... you have guys that all want to prove something and are in a new situation.

I think understand are better bets than overs... one Horford/Kyrie/Gordon injury that causes them to miss 15-30 games and I don't think they hit it. I think the OU is set at their absolute best case scenario so I'd bet it all day.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Raptors and Wizards are still pretty good teams too, but after that, that's pretty much it.

Miami is okay too but easy to overlook.

Eastern conference is truly a **** show.

 

[Elizah Huge]

The East lost Paul Millsap, Jimmy Butler, and Paul George. That's 12 games that just got way easier for the Celtics. Plus they only play the Cavs 3 times this year. I think they win at least 53. 57 is easily reachable for them.

Boston is a worse team now though.

They literally lost their two best defenders and a lot of depth.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Boston is a worse team now though.

They literally lost their two best defenders and a lot of depth.

They added two all-stars and lost one. They are a better team. They also have internal improvement from their young talent as well as adding an extremely talented rookie. I doubt they are worse next year.

 

[Siro]

They added two all-stars and lost one. They are a better team. They also have internal improvement from their young talent as well as adding an extremely talented rookie. I doubt they are worse next year.

Uh, no. They lost a ton of depth and most of their good players. Don't misrepresent the situation to make some stupid point.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Uh, no. They lost a ton of depth and most of their good players. Don't misrepresent the situation to make some stupid point.

They have a higher talent level this year than last year. I don't see how anyone could argue that.

 

[Siro]

They have a higher talent level this year than last year. I don't see how anyone could argue that.

The have a shallower team, and they lost their top two defenders. It's not as simple as 2 all stars vs 1.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The have a shallower team, and they lost their top two defenders. It's not as simple as 2 all stars vs 1.

Players will replace them. It's not like they didnt have players ready for the opportunity to fill their shoes.

Jaylen Brown is ready to play a larger role. Terry Rozier is ready to play a larger role. Marcus Smart also. Plus they added Jayson Tatum.

And it really is simple. They added more talent. Their ceiling as a franchise is now higher than it was previously. Could there be some learning curve moments? Sure, but I think they are clearly a better team. Brad Stevens and his system really helped make some of these guys. He is probably going to do it again since he still has a top tier core to build around.

But I get it, people are bitter Hayward left and dont want to extend any credit to Boston as a franchise or their coach and his ability to make players better.