Gay Nightclub mass shooting -- Orlando, Florida

[Siro]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html

I misspoke. They don't say he's been on their watch list, but they say he was investigated in 2013 and 2014 and “He’s been on the radar before.”

For unrelated crimes. Nonetheless, this is an interesting development as it reminds us that anyone can become radicalized. Europe has a bigger terror problem than the US because the massive number of alienated Muslim youths who become radical because they want to belong to something. But as long as violent interpretations of religion exists, we can never have perfect security.

 

[stitches]

For unrelated crimes. Nonetheless, this is an interesting development as it reminds us that anyone can become radicalized. Europe has a bigger terror problem than the US because the massive number of alienated Muslim youths who become radical because they want to belong to something. But as long as violent interpretations of religion exists, we can never have perfect security.

Do you have source for this? All news articles I'm reading suggest that the investigations were related to his involvement with extremism.

 

[Siro]

Do you have source for this? All news articles I'm reading suggest that the investigations were related to his involvement with extremism.

The BBC story has this sentence:

It is believed that the suspect, who was a US citizen from the Florida town of Port St Lucie and was of Afghan descent, was not on a terrorism watch list, although he was being investigated for an unrelated criminal act.

I didn't check to see if they're correct, but that's where I got that info.

 

[JazzGal]

Both his father and ex-wife claim he is not religious. Ex-wife said he beat her, is violent and unstable, and her family had to rescue her from him. Father said he saw two men kissing and has been extremely upset about it. FBI briefly interrogated him a few years ago because of a jihad comment he made, apparently, but found nothing to justify surveillance. Perhaps he made the 911 call claiming ISIS affiliation knowing it would intensity the fear. Likely there are many motives combined.

Whatever the reason, it is tragic and sad and horrible.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[stitches]

For unrelated crimes. Nonetheless, this is an interesting development as it reminds us that anyone can become radicalized. Europe has a bigger terror problem than the US because the massive number of alienated Muslim youths who become radical because they want to belong to something. But as long as violent interpretations of religion exists, we can never have perfect security.

The problem in Europe seems to be much worse because of faux-multiculturalism which in fact turns into ghettos and segregation and disenfranchisement. In the US the Muslim population seems much better integrated, but still extremist attitudes seem to be present even there. I don't see any reason why any regular/moderate Muslim should tolerate attitudes like the ones I posted on the first page in their communities and mosques. Those should be called out and condemned on the spot and precisely Muslims are in the best position to do it.

 

[Siro]

Both his father and ex-wife claim he is not religious. Ex-wife said he beat her, is violent and unstable, and her family had to rescue her from him. Father said he saw two men kissing and has been extremely upset about it. FBI briefly interrogated him a few years ago because of a jihad comment he made, apparently, but found nothing to justify surveillance. Perhaps he made the 911 call claiming ISIS affiliation knowing it would intensity the fear. Likely there are many motives combined.

Whatever the reason, it is tragic and sad and horrible.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app

If he truly turns out not to have religious motives, then it would have been a lot more productive of him to have come out of the closet. 50+ lives would have bee spared.

No way a straight, secular man, cares this deeply about men kissing each other.

 

[Siro]

The problem in Europe seems to be much worse because of faux-multiculturalism which in fact turns into ghettos and segregation and disenfranchisement. In the US the Muslim population seems much better integrated, but still extremist attitudes seem to be present even there. I don't see any reason why any regular/moderate Muslim should tolerate attitudes like the ones I posted on the first page in their communities and mosques. Those should be called out and condemned on the spot and precisely Muslims are in the best position to do it.

They do. Hell, ISIS "hit list" is full of moderate Western Muslims that they feel undermine their crazy ****ing message.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Oh my God.



That makes it far and beyond the biggest mass-shooting in American history.

I get that ppl get upset when ppl complain about assault rifles-- but you have to understand how much easier it makes it to just spray ammunition with an AR-15 (yes, I realize it was most-likely semi-automatic). I dunno y'all. This is crazy.

Just a minor point, but all AR-15's are semi-automatic.

Awful, awful tragedy. I will never understand how somebody could kill another like this. Just awful.

 

[RandyForRubio]

I just don't get it. I mean, look, I disagree with homosexuality, sex before marriage, etc etc. I'm one of those nasty fundamentalist Christians. I'm what's labeled as a radical Chrisfian. Never, ever, ever have I wanted to kill somebody because I disagree with how they live their life. I don't even want to punch them, verbally abuse them, anything like that. Why is it so hard to just treat a person decently? I can disagree with somebody and still get along with them. It's not actually that hard.

 

[Jazz and Utes]

I just don't get it. I mean, look, I disagree with homosexuality, sex before marriage, etc etc. I'm one of those nasty fundamentalist Christians. I'm what's labeled as a radical Chrisfian. Never, ever, ever have I wanted to kill somebody because I disagree with how they live their life. I don't even want to punch them, verbally abuse them, anything like that. Why is it so hard to just treat a person decently? I can disagree with somebody and still get along with them. It's not actually that hard.

Because you're a reasonable human being that's why. That's what America should be about, believe in what you believe and express your views in a respectful manner with out being loud and condescending about it and also being willing to listen not just hear the other person and even if you still disagree with each other you can still respect that person as a human being.

 

[stitches]

They do. Hell, ISIS "hit list" is full of moderate Western Muslims that they feel undermine their crazy ****ing message.

Being aligned against ISIS is not that terribly hard or noteworthy. Even Al-Quaeda is in a war against ISIS. I know there are plenty of moderate Muslims and reformers speaking against ISIS and their backwards attitudes and they deserve our full support especially having in mind the personal risk they are taking. Something that needs to be pointed out regularly is that Muslims are the most frequent victims of ISIS and it is by a LONG MILE!

My biggest concern though is that religious leaders and community leaders don't do enough to fight against bigoted attitudes as a whole contained in their religions(not necessarily just anti-ISIS rhetoric).

How do you explain mosques inviting speakers who preach how the compassionate thing to do for gays is to kill them and get rid off them? And when asked to comment all they can say is "this is a private event and our speakers have the right to say whatever they want". Sure they have that right, that's not the question here.

There are plenty of polls among Muslim communities in the western world that produce results that are worrying about attitudes towards women, gays, non-believers, apostates, etc.

And don't get me wrong I have almost the same level of contempt for Christian preachers preaching similar messages, but at least with them we've gotten to a place where the worst of them 'just' want the gays not to marry or to get them rounded up and put them in a concentration camp.

 

[stitches]

I just don't get it. I mean, look, I disagree with homosexuality, sex before marriage, etc etc. I'm one of those nasty fundamentalist Christians. I'm what's labeled as a radical Chrisfian. Never, ever, ever have I wanted to kill somebody because I disagree with how they live their life. I don't even want to punch them, verbally abuse them, anything like that. Why is it so hard to just treat a person decently? I can disagree with somebody and still get along with them. It's not actually that hard.

The huge majority of people of any religion don't want to do harm to anybody. They might disagree and not like others very much for their differences and choices but would never go on and kill people. The saddest thing is that we don't need many to produce a great deal of harm.