Gay Nightclub mass shooting -- Orlando, Florida

[moevillini]

I think he was a self-loathing closeted homosexual who probably wanted to be super religious but didn't have the strength or character to be anything more than a creep. And I'm sure Dad who up until Sunday morning was probably the craziest guy in the family didn't help either.

Dad? Omar Mateen's dad? Are you saying his father was unstable or something? I'm not following your reference here.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

This is so bizarre. I'd also like to stop being told that a drinking Muslim not observing Ramadan was "super religious".

I've never heard anyone use the term "super religious" for these people. "Extremist," to me, means they are using extreme views and interpretations to advance their agenda. That seems pretty accurate.

 

[moevillini]

I think he was a self-loathing closeted homosexual who probably wanted to be super religious but didn't have the strength or character to be anything more than a creep. And I'm sure Dad who up until Sunday morning was probably the craziest guy in the family didn't help either.

Dad? Omar Mateen's dad? Are you saying his father was unstable or something? I'm not following your reference here.

OK, found this article. It's pretty long, but towards the last half it explains the the father broadcast YouTube videos that were a little strange, where he rambled on about Afghan politics.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-orlando-shooters-afghan-roots/2016/06/13/d89a8cd0-30e4-11e6-ab9d-1da2b0f24f93_story.html

 

[JazzGal]

Apparently he has been frequenting gay clubs for 10 years and using gay dating websites. Maybe the motives change to self-loathing? Or jealousy? Anger toward certain individuals that he knew? Interesting.

I have a friend who will not discuss an event until two days after it happens because the story often changes so much. He doesn't want to commit to positions which can change as facts become available. Smart guy.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Deleted member 848]

I think he was a self-loathing closeted homosexual who probably wanted to be super religious but didn't have the strength or character to be anything more than a creep. And I'm sure Dad who up until Sunday morning was probably the craziest guy in the family didn't help either.

I think this is a pretty darn good guess.

 

[candrew]

OK, found this article. It's pretty long, but towards the last half it explains the the father broadcast YouTube videos that were a little strange, where he rambled on about Afghan politics.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-orlando-shooters-afghan-roots/2016/06/13/d89a8cd0-30e4-11e6-ab9d-1da2b0f24f93_story.html

The guy claimed he was the president of Afganistan. Now he's discussing the mental health of his son to all the major media outlets. This would be hilarious if it wasn't so god damned tragic.

 

[Deleted member 848]

The guy claimed he was the president of Afganistan. Now he's discussing the mental health of his son to all the major media outlets. This would be hilarious if it wasn't so god damned tragic.

Goes back to what JimLes said, in terms of parental indoctrination.

 

[♪alt13]

Politics have everything to do with this tragedy. Those crying about politicizing are those who try to control the narrative of a tragedy.

No people that are politicizing it are trying to control the narrative of a tragedy. They are using fear to bypass people's reason and their values. It's exactly how you get someone like Trump elected president. We should listen to the victims and to the investigators we should not be using public fear to further arguments we were already making.

You're missing the point, and it's not a seamless comparison.


Religion is chosen-- homosexuality is believed to not be. Insisting that homosexuality is a choice is what made it a DSM-classified mental illness for so long, & why it's so stigmatized that ppl are mass-murdered as a result of it.

No it's because it's been stigmatized as immoral. Fate is not a good argument to show that there is nothing immoral about being LGBTQ. Being born a certain way has never stopped people from dehumanizing that group. In fact I would argue that it makes it easier. It makes those people defective, truly other than. It makes it easier for people to justify murder, sterilization, etc. There are plenty of very good arguments that are consistent with our values in a liberal democracy and that draw on our history that has steered toward more tolerance for both why it is not immoral to be LGBTQ and why people should accept them as fellows. Please do not water down our values to genetic fatalism. It is that thinking that started the eugenics movement and all the horrors of the 30's and 40's.

Kinda bizarre to disagree with something that you can't choose. Do you disagree with those who itch their eyes?

I really hate this argument. Attacking it from another angle, there are a whole host of really terrible things that we would have to accept as moral if we accept this argument. I will have no part of it. It just isn't immoral to be gay and it doesn't matter if someone chooses to be or was born that way.

 

[NAOS]

Apparently he has been frequenting gay clubs for 10 years and using gay dating websites. Maybe the motives change to self-loathing? Or jealousy? Anger toward certain individuals that he knew? Interesting.

I have a friend who will not discuss an event until two days after it happens because the story often changes so much. He doesn't want to commit to positions which can change as facts become available. Smart guy.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app

#hisnameisnotDalamon

 

[NAOS]

No people that are politicizing it are trying to control the narrative of a tragedy. They are using fear to bypass people's reason and their values. It's exactly how you get someone like Trump elected president. We should listen to the victims and to the investigators we should not be using public fear to further arguments we were already making.



No it's because it's been stigmatized as immoral. Fate is not a good argument to show that there is nothing immoral about being LGBTQ. Being born a certain way has never stopped people from dehumanizing that group. In fact I would argue that it makes it easier. It makes those people defective, truly other than. It makes it easier for people to justify murder, sterilization, etc. There are plenty of very good arguments that are consistent with our values in a liberal democracy and that draw on our history that has steered toward more tolerance for both why it is not immoral to be LGBTQ and why people should accept them as fellows. Please do not water down our values to genetic fatalism. It is that thinking that started the eugenics movement and all the horrors of the 30's and 40's.



I really hate this argument. Attacking it from another angle, there are a whole host of really terrible things that we would have to accept as moral if we accept this argument. I will have no part of it. It just isn't immoral to be gay and it doesn't matter if someone chooses to be or was born that way.

will someone PM me if Dalamon is able to pick himself up off the mat after this beat down? tia

 

[Boris]

You're missing the point, and it's not a seamless comparison.


Religion is chosen-- homosexuality is believed to not be. Insisting that homosexuality is a choice is what made it a DSM-classified mental illness for so long, & why it's so stigmatized that ppl are mass-murdered as a result of it.

Reverend Sharpton here makes it sound like gay mass shootings happen all the time. Nice hyperbole. This is the first gay shooting I have heard of.

Also, Since when is religion chosen? Billions on this planet are born into Catholicism and Islamic. Indoctrinated sense childbirth. Those people never chose anymore than a gay chose.

 

[Gameface]

Reverend Sharpton here makes it sound like gay mass shootings happen all the time. Nice hyperbole. This is the first gay shooting I have heard of.

Also, Since when is religion chosen? Billions on this planet are born into Catholicism and Islamic. Indoctrinated sense childbirth. Those people never chose anymore than a gay chose.

And in many countries apostasy is a crime, a very very serious crime.