General Conference - Fall 2010

[bigb]

Actually I think I am done with you. You are a sad little boy with no ability to actual defend your point of view. Instead you must resort to petty name calling, what a sad little person you are. I am certainly sure that your Lord is so proud of you.

I love that fact that you call him out about name calling, all the while calling him a sad little boy. Moran

 

[Scat]

Actually I think I am done with you. You are a sad little boy with no ability to actual defend your point of view. Instead you must resort to petty name calling, what a sad little person you are. I am certainly sure that your Lord is so proud of you.

Just a hunch but I'm guessing the doctor bitch slapped your mom when you were born.

 

[C l u t c H 385]

You have no idea how I grew up dumbass.

Wahhhhhh! Wahhhhh!

 

[colton]

Why would I know if he was or wasn't a bishop?

That wasn't the point. The point is that Trout is exceedingly sarcastic, and I would have expected someone with as many posts as you have to know that. Yet you missed it completely when he said "Of course you hurt my feelings, I'm a bishop and in charge of the food storage for the whole stake." But, sarcasm is of course not always easy to detect on the internet.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Here is a letter to BKP from a local bishop.

It's long, but worth the read.

https://www.lds-mormon.com/hardy.shtml

 

[KatieMCR]

Here is a letter to BKP from a local bishop.

It's long, but worth the read.

https://www.lds-mormon.com/hardy.shtml

I just finished reading it myself, and was about to come post about it. It is an absolutely amazing letter. It should be read by everyone. I just don't understand how anyone (excluding beanguytownperson) can still not believe that sexual orientation is inborn. Here's a section of the letter that applies to Packer's recent talk.

At the crux of the issue of homosexuality and the Church are the three great interrelated beliefs: (1) there is an element of choice involved in becoming and remaining homosexual, (2) it can be cured, and (3) our children and youth can be recruited or enticed into homosexuality. Every time we have sought out help for our son and family on this issue from Priesthood leaders or General Authorities we have been summarily referred to the experts at LDS Social Services. Because the lives and well-being of so many trusting individuals and family members are at stake here, it would seem that much stock is put in the expertise of LDS Social Services in this matter. Isn't it fairly obvious, though, that the "experts" you rely on at LDS Social Services to professionally corroborate and support the doctrine and policy of the Church would support whatever position you have mandated to be the only correct one? Such is the level of respect for and faith in the office you hold. In all honesty, to disagree with a member of the Twelve on a matter of doctrine is tantamount to heresy. I'm sure you are aware that the American Psychiatric Association has denounced "reparative therapy" for treating homosexuals as both ineffective and damaging. I find it ironic that when a fundamentalist religious group shuns sound medical intervention as a doctrine we find it appalling and backwards - yet when that same sound medical advice denounces the practice of "reparative therapy" we call it "worldly" false doctrine. I guess it all depends on just whose ox is being gored.

In To The One you preach that homosexuality is not innate, but is a curable condition. Your fundamental proof: God wouldn't make a mistake like this. By preaching this, you set the impossible goal of "cure" as the standard to which my son must hold himself responsible, as must his family and all other Church members. Until he chooses to do what he must to be "cured," he hasn't done enough. He will never have done enough. He will always come up failing in the most fundamental aspect of his entire existence as a child of his Heavenly Father. He is a pervert, an aberration, and an abomination. There is nothing left in this life or the next. How would you deal with this if you were him? Homosexuality is not a "condition" that can be "cured." My proof: I have yet to meet even one venerable grandfather with a fine posterity (or anyone else for that matter) who says he was once homosexual but was long ago cured - and my experience as a father observing my son from birth.

Perhaps the most hurtful aspect of To The One is your revelation that the fundamental reason why my son has not been "cured" is because of his selfishness. When I inform other people that this is actually what you preach in To The One, they are incredulous (members included). They respond "Obviously you have misread or misconstrued what Elder Packer said." You are well aware that this is precisely what is said. As one who knows my son and his heart better than you, your doctrine that my son's selfishness is at the core of his ability or inability to be cured of his homosexuality is offensive in the extreme, and evidences the lack of any meaningful inquiry into this issue beyond the application of pure dogma. In saying this it is not my intent to offend you. It is, simply, incredible that you could hit upon anything quite so insensitive and ignorant of the facts. Indeed, my son is the most unselfish and Christ-like person I know. This holds true for most of the LDS homosexuals I know well. They have to be to keep trying.

Your doctrine of "choice" and "curability" is also at the core of why the Church and its members in reality view my son and those like him as latter-day lepers. If homosexuality (1) is not inborn, (2) has an element of choice, and (3) can be cured - then it must be able to be taught or suggested. Others must also be susceptible to being enticed or recruited. Our children are capable of being infected by these people and not becoming mothers and fathers. It is, therefore, a frontal assault on the family. The "hate the sin but love the sinner" platitude cannot disguise the fact that in reality the members of the Church are taught to loathe and fear our son and those like him. This qualified and synthetic "love" is nothing more than the few alms hurriedly and begrudgingly parted with to salve the Christian conscience, while never once entertaining the idea of actually descending into the leper pit. We would never expose our children to this for it might infect them. If sexual orientation is a matter of choice, when exactly did you choose to be heterosexual? When and how often did you reaffirm your choice to stay that way? Why aren't my other children, who idolize their brother, even the slightest bit interested in adopting a homosexual "lifestyle" or in homosexual experimentation? Why would anyone choose to be an abomination and an outcast? It defies reason.

Keep in mind this bishop is referencing material written by Boyd K. Packer. Now it was suggested here that Packer did not say that a person can change their sexual orientation. I 100% believe that is what he meant when he said: "Some suppose that they were pre-set and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies toward the impure and unnatural. Not so! Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone? Remember he is our father.”

This is why I, along with possibly 2,000+ other people, will be protesting tomorrow. Packer's words are so very harmful to LGBT mormon youth. The LDS church needs to realize the consequences their words carry.

 

[CONAN]

I'm sure you are aware that the American Psychiatric Association has denounced "reparative therapy" for treating homosexuals as both ineffective and damaging. I find it ironic that when a fundamentalist religious group shuns sound medical intervention as a doctrine we find it appalling and backwards - yet when that same sound medical advice denounces the practice of "reparative therapy" we call it "worldly" false doctrine. I guess it all depends on just whose ox is being gored.

Didn't read the whole thing but the APA is biased when it comes to homo stuff. Do a little research and check out their history and you'll see. Another poster tried using them as well one time only to get slapped down.

If sexual orientation is a matter of choice, when exactly did you choose to be heterosexual? When and how often did you reaffirm your choice to stay that way? Why aren't my other children, who idolize their brother, even the slightest bit interested in adopting a homosexual "lifestyle" or in homosexual experimentation? Why would anyone choose to be an abomination and an outcast? It defies reason.

You could make the same argument for druggies then. I understand this guy being sensitive cuz he's got a horse in the race but he's losing it here hardcore.

 

[bigb]

I found that letter to be a very interesting read. It certainly provided a viewpoint that probably not many have heard.

 

[One Brow]

Didn't read the whole thing but the APA is biased when it comes to homo stuff. Do a little research and check out their history and you'll see. Another poster tried using them as well one time only to get slapped down.

Apparently, looking at a human condition and determining that it is a) not intrinsically harmful, and b) central to a peronality is sufficient for CONAN to think bias must be involved. This is purest nonesense, of course. It's much like a KKKer complaining that hospitals are using the same surgical procedures on members of different races.

You could make the same argument for druggies then. I understand this guy being sensitive cuz he's got a horse in the race but he's losing it here hardcore.

Drug addiction has known psychological effects that interfere with an individuals ability to function. Homosexuality does not.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Incorrect. Boyd K. Packer is a great man who is 80+ years old, and has the same mentality he had 50, 40, hell, 10 years ago. Ignorance does not = Bigoted.

Bigotry is bigotry, even if you're from the age of the dinosaurs where it was okay to assault purple T-Rex. I suppose McConkie wasn't a bigot because it was okay to consider blacks as sub-human 50 years ago.

 

[CONAN]

Apparently, looking at a human condition and determining that it is a) not intrinsically harmful, and b) central to a peronality is sufficient for CONAN to think bias must be involved. This is purest nonesense, of course. It's much like a KKKer complaining that hospitals are using the same surgical procedures on members of different races.

Apparently, you are one of those that got slapped down.

Drug addiction has known psychological effects that interfere with an individuals ability to function. Homosexuality does not.

0-2 here my man.

 

[C l u t c H 385]

Bigotry is bigotry, even if you're from the age of the dinosaurs where it was okay to assault purple T-Rex. I suppose McConkie wasn't a bigot because it was okay to consider blacks as sub-human 50 years ago.

You're not very good at reading, are you?