General NBA Craziness and How it Applies to Utah

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yep, and some of the same people criticizing our spending were also complaining about trading a pick for a player that could leave in a year. Maybe Utah could have made a big move a year sooner, but you can't force teams to trade their difference makers and you can't force FAs to sign here.

Most of the complaining from HH and Naos last year was about not spending on mid-level talent, when maintaining cap space makes it easier to make a trade if the chance comes along for a difference maker. Just because DL hasn't yet found that opportunity, doesn't mean we should blow all our cap space on the Jeremy Lins and Lou Williams of the league.

Regardless, if it wasn't this issue, fans will always find something to complain about when things don't go their way. All you have to do is bring up OKC and Durant, and people come out of the woodwork to blame management/ownership for Durant leaving a team that had a legit shot at a ring for multiple years.

I had mild complaints that we didn't use our space to the floor this year... my big complaints were the year before and it was about building up the asset base of the franchise and taking a shot. Cap space is an expiring asset... Boston has managed their cap space and used it to acquire pieces and still maintained flexibility... we did drastically more conservative approach.

Two years ago... outside of Kanter I don't think there were any bad contracts signed. That was the year to get something done.

 

[NAOS]

*cough*

Not surprised you confused truth-telling with squabbling.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

There was a legit reason for them not to spend last summer - giving Favors/Hill a R&E. They had to try it IMO. You can fault them for not succeeding but it takes 2 to tango in this situation.

Thanks for bringing this up, as I missed it. There are a **** load of angles to look at when talking about how a team operates, and many legitimate reasons for maintaining a certain amount of cap space.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Whose fault is it then? He had a choice to play for his national team, as Hayward passed up recently. He has a choice how he practices, what he does on the court, how he prepares himself both physically and mentally for games. I would argue that if it isn't 100% his fault it is at least 90%, give him a 5% break for a fluke injury (in a game he did not have to play in, hence the low percentage) and maybe 5% what the team needed at the moment limiting his PT or something, but that's it. He has to own that **** and then do something to fix it. Put up or shut up, as it were. Go big or go home. Whatever cliche you like his overall performance is on him.

Bro... not all his fault... some of it is his fault, but playing for the national team is not a selfish move... has helped many (including Gobert) get high-level reps.

He probably could work harder, but I am not with him 24/7 and his injury is legit... not like he could fix that.

I am not sure he was ever going to be a star and we put that on him, was more lamenting that it did not turn like we thought. I am not sure he has star in him.

 

[LogGrad98]

I'm not (temporarily) back so that I can re-engage in JFC squabbles. I will just go ahead and claim that the axes of G's tornness comes down to questions of spending + being in GSW's conference. On the first one, the FO has a lot of responsibility in creating those questions.... and here we are. This is not a claim that is any more speculative or "out there" that what's in your post history.

For the record, last offseason isn't a problem for me. It was the one before that; and the reasons for being upset still stand (and DL himself has admitted fault... even if you won't hear it). I imagine those older reasons will fully re-emerge with increased volume if G decides to leave.

Not surprised you confused truth-telling with squabbling.

There is a way to tell the truth without inciting a squabble, a skill you seem to have never developed.

And you followed up my post with a veiled insult. Not surprising considering your track record. Well carry on in your delusions that it is all THEM and never YOU.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Thanks for bringing this up, as I missed it. There are a **** load of angles to look at when talking about how a team operates, and many legitimate reasons for maintaining a certain amount of cap space.

You have from the summer to the trade deadline to get that done. When it was clear it wasn't getting done we could have done something.

It was the best use of space, but when it is not available you move to plan B.

 

[LogGrad98]

I'm not (temporarily) back so that I can re-engage in JFC squabbles. I will just go ahead and claim that the axes of G's tornness comes down to questions of spending + being in GSW's conference. On the first one, the FO has a lot of responsibility in creating those questions.... and here we are. This is not a claim that is any more speculative or "out there" that what's in your post history.

For the record, last offseason isn't a problem for me. It was the one before that; and the reasons for being upset still stand (and DL himself has admitted fault... even if you won't hear it). I imagine those older reasons will fully re-emerge with increased volume if G decides to leave.

Bro... not all his fault... some of it is his fault, but playing for the national team is not a selfish move... has helped many (including Gobert) get high-level reps.

He probably could work harder, but I am not with him 24/7 and his injury is legit... not like he could fix that.

I am not sure he was ever going to be a star and we put that on him, was more lamenting that it did not turn like we thought. I am not sure he has star in him.

I never said anything about selfishness, just that he had a choice.

I agree with the bold 100%.

 

[NAOS]

I had mild complaints that we didn't use our space to the floor this year... my big complaints were the year before and it was about building up the asset base of the franchise and taking a shot. Cap space is an expiring asset... Boston has managed their cap space and used it to acquire pieces and still maintained flexibility... we did drastically more conservative approach.

Two years ago... outside of Kanter I don't think there were any bad contracts signed. That was the year to get something done.

For the record, two off-seasons ago HH had probably the best off-season in JFC history. He completely nailed the problems and laid out very realistic acquisitions. These players would have signed for the right money and would have likely been assets who got us into the playoffs a year earlier and remained very moveable. I was with him on identifying the problems/opportunities, but he was far beyond me in terms of tangible gets to solve those problems.

Cappy is a great poster; but remains too much of an apologist.

 

[NAOS]

There is a way to tell the truth without inciting a squabble, a skill you seem to have never developed.

And you followed up my post with a veiled insult. Not surprising considering your track record. Well carry on in your delusions that it is all THEM and never YOU.

I'm happy to be leaving again in a few days.... Don't worry.

 

[NAOS]

You have from the summer to the trade deadline to get that done. When it was clear it wasn't getting done we could have done something.

It was the best use of space, but when it is not available you move to plan B.

Obvi ^this^ dudes.

 

[LoPo]

Why? Because you obviously lack 2 things:

1. Important knowledge about the workings of the NBA
2. Self-awareness of what you don't know

...and yet you're busy as hell over here spinning out trash.

Learn more. Write less.

#1 - lol
#2 - like I give a rats **** what a loser like you thinks about me? You go away for a while and come back spitting insults at people. Your sad, pitiful existence must really suck.

Bonus point - it's a fan board for fan ideas and feedback. If you don't like an idea, just say it. Insulting the person posting the idea just shows your lack of class and inability to be part of a team of fans wanting what's best for our beloved franchise. If you're not part of the solution, don't add to the problems. I guarandamntee you GM's start lowball and meet in the middle.

I hope your day gets better NAOS.

 

[enchilada_style]

I'm entertained...

 

[green]

The problem with the Jazz is that they've drafted like ****.

Since Hayward was drafted, we've drafted Kanter, Burke, Burks, Exum and Lyles.

Absolute garbage. We were super lucky to get Gobert (which I've heard was at Sloan's demand).

Had we drafted one good piece with those 5 lottery picks, we are in another world right now.

Lindsey may be the worst drafting GM in NBA.

 

[LoPo]

Back to the actual topics at hand.

IF our willingness to spend affecting Hayward was ever on display, it would be in the next 12 hours. If we exit the draft without using our available $13 million in cap space, it is a clear sign that we're unwilling to spend. Our $13 million in space right now is one of the biggest assets in the entire NBA. With the cap shrinking below expectations, salary dumps are bigger than ever. So if we don't absorb a salary or make a lopsided deal since we can take on more salary, we are wasting an asset.

Today will tell. If I'm Hayward, I'm paying very, very close attention to how Utah uses this asset today.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And to nail the point home... Spending doesn't mean you throw money around recklessly you want to be flexible. Last year's offseason was great. Had we acquired one of the targets from the year before we'd be in great shape cap wise and everything that was available to us last season would have been available and we'd still have options plus another potential asset.

Those that say spending may not be an issue also fail to recognize we have sold picks in every draft.

Now you walk into the meeting with Gordon and can promise to spend, but he has nothing more than your word that you will. I think we will... I don't think we are super cheapskates, but the last 2-3 years we have been quite frugal and I think Gayle saw that the family was operating in this manner and mover the team into the trust.

 

[BackHander]

Back to the actual topics at hand.

IF our willingness to spend affecting Hayward was ever on display, it would be in the next 12 hours. If we exit the draft without using our available $13 million in cap space, it is a clear sign that we're unwilling to spend. Our $13 million in space right now is one of the biggest assets in the entire NBA. With the cap shrinking below expectations, salary dumps are bigger than ever. So if we don't absorb a salary, make a lopsided deal since we can take on more salary, we are wasting an asset.

Today will tell. If I'm Hayward, I'm paying very, very close attention to how Utah uses this asset today.

Totally. I don't feel torn about leaving either. If we don't use that cap space, best case we keep Hill and Ingles. Probably a 3 seed ceiling. I can pass on that if I am Hayward.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The problem with the Jazz is that they've drafted like ****.

Since Hayward was drafted, we've drafted Kanter, Burke, Burks, Exum and Lyles.

Absolute garbage. We were super lucky to get Gobert (which I've heard was at Sloan's demand).

Had we drafted one good piece with those 5 lottery picks, we are in another world right now.

Lindsey may be the worst drafting GM in NBA.

This is just bad... You can't say Gobert is luck and the other picks are trash... and ignore Hood.

Burks and Kanter were under KOC and you could argue so was Burke.

The only pick he's made that I didn't like was Lyles and I understand his rationale... you have a guy who was an all american and he's playing a role on a super team, so maybe he's undervalued... problem was it was his teammate that was undervalued.

Exum was the right pick... wasn't supposed to be there... it was a moonshot. Randle, Vonleh, Smart.... not taring the league up right now.

 

[LoPo]

Yeah, we haven't drafted all that well, but I haven't given up hope on Exum or Lyles yet. They have the potential to be specialists if we can find a way to get that from them. Lyles could be a premiere stretch 4 and Exum with his size and athleticism. I don't believe in calling a draft pick a failure until he goes the route of a Trey Burke. With Kanter, it wasn't the pick as much as how we waited too long to trade him for better value.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

As for deals right now... short of PG or Love we won't do anything that convinces him to stay... if we trade Hood to move up in the draft it may be what convinces him to leave.

Our options at this point need to be limited to deals we would do if he was staying or leaving... With that I present to you the following meh trade...

Mil wants to re-sign Snell, but is now right at the tax if they do so... would you take Hawes into space plus 24 for 17? Depending on how desperate they are we could sub 30 in for 24.

I think his salary is okayish and he could be a solid backup for 10 minutes. I think we could waive and stretch him if we needed more space to retain hayward/hill etc.

At #17 could take OG or whoever slides a bit. Right now Patton and OG would be available, but there are other potential targets. It may allow us to move up further if need be.

 

[LoPo]

I don't know if the Bucks would sacrifice 7 spots in the draft. And doesn't Hawes have a player option?

Personally, I think the no brainer trade is for Beverley. It's a good message to Hayward, but one that works whether he stays or goes. $6 million the next two years will not get in the way of keeping Hill and Ingles too if that's what Hayward wants. We can make that happen through additional moves.

Beverley is the smartest move we can make and I bet we make it if we don't find something bigger first.