What's new
By:

George Hill wants an extension. Need capologists in here

♪alt13 said:
1st good work repped

2nd Joe Johnson should be considered as a stop gap in my view that could be gone at any time(when Alec is healthy)

3rd I agree we have tough choices to make in 2018 but let's wait until 2018 to make them. Perhaps we have to unload Hill. Perhaps Burks. Perhaps we sign and trade for Exum or Lyles. Perhaps even Favors iss the odd man out. I don't know which route we should take but it will be more obvious when that time comes. Extend George mutha****in Hill
Click to expand...

4th. You don't extend Burks. You trade him to extend Exum or Lyles.
 
Shad said:
4th. You don't extend Burks. You trade him to extend Exum or Lyles.
Click to expand...
Burks is not worth much to trade. We dont need to clear his salary this year. He is worth the risk to see if he can be healthy. He will either be helpful to the team or worth more in a trade if we get him back healthy. If in a year or two we need the room and he isnt that big of help dump him then.
 
We're so lucky to have Hood making Burks expendable... also Lyles' rise is GOLD.


We have so many options now it's amazing.
 
If we use all the cap space on Hill, we can front load a 3/$45M deal that goes $20M->$13M-$12M. It would be the money equivalent of Hill signing a 2/$37M deal this summer.
 
Hedda Gambler said:
The problem is that if we extend Hill now, we will have no way to extend Favors until his deal runs out. By extending Hill now, we would use most of our cap space in doing so, leaving nothing, or very little for Favors. Next summer, Gobert`s new deal and Hayward`s massive cap hold kicks in. If Hayward leaves, then sure, but if not, we can`t extend Favors as we would be way over the cap. Under the current CBA, it would make more sense to extend Favors now and wait until the summer to do Hill by using his Bird rights. But, we don`t know what is in the new CBA, which may hold provisions that could change all of this.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this. I think you're taking a much bigger risk by letting Hill go to FA. He's finally in the perfect position, and I expect him to have a monster year with Utah. On the other hand, Favors is under contract for another year, and is also somewhat of a question mark health wise. I really hate not giving him his money, after getting him for a bargain on his last contract, but I think the best move for Utah if they have to choose, is to extend Hill and gamble on being able to re-sign Favors when his contract runs out, using his bird rights.

I will admit though, that this situation is pretty complicated. It will be interesting to see what happens.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
I don't agree with this. I think you're taking a much bigger risk by letting Hill go to FA. He's finally in the perfect position, and I expect him to have a monster year with Utah. On the other hand, Favors is under contract for another year, and is also somewhat of a question mark health wise. I really hate not giving him his money, after getting him for a bargain on his last contract, but I think the best move for Utah if they have to choose, is to extend Hill and gamble on being able to re-sign Favors when his contract runs out, using his bird rights.

I will admit though, that this situation is pretty complicated. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Click to expand...
Also who is more ready as the backup if the player leaves, Lyles for Favors or Exum for Hill?


I think Lyles is more ready and with Gobert I think there's enough there to say if Favors does leave we might still be ok. Exum is still pretty raw with his shooting..
 
Quick question. . . in the calculations, are the Jazz limited to only using available cap space for extensions, even though they have Bird rights for both Hill and Favors? Couldn't they go over the cap to extend them?

I love Burks, but Hill is the missing link. Keep Hill, Hayward, Hood, Exum, Lyles, Favors and Gobert. Everything else is interchangeable. Jazz still have contracts and assets that they can use to sign, trade or draft to fill the role players.
 
I think we end up with Favs and Hill staying. However I think DL will find a door #3. I'm not smart enough to tell you what type of move that will be, nor which players come and go. I do think it has to do with the culture we have and we get more options the more we win. The franchise has begun to change the image and culture here. It may be a discount, it may be an unexpected FA vet a la JJ, but I just don't feel like this team has completed the rebuild and I don't think this year or next is the plateau.

Now back to the capologists to splain how this all comes about.
 
Hill will probably require something in the $15-16M/year contract.

Rajon Rondo signed with Chicago for a contract averaging $14+

I know it is a small sample size and after Hayward returns, the numbers could change. We are having to rely on Hill a lot at this time due to injuries etc. But there were only 5 PGs last season that averaged 21 pts/3 Rebs/4 Assists per game. Rajon Rondo averaged 11.9 pts, 6 Rebs and 11.7 Assists and got $14M.

Hills assists will go up with Hayward's return and his points will most likely drop some. But then again, Hayward's return may help Hill a little on points due to spacing out the floor more and drawing more attention

The following is for last season stats with the top PGs in those three categories and Hills stats so far this season as a comparison.

georgehill.jpg
 

Attachments

  • George Hill.jpg
    George Hill.jpg
    25.6 KB · Views: 11
Ellis269 said:
Quick question. . . in the calculations, are the Jazz limited to only using available cap space for extensions, even though they have Bird rights for both Hill and Favors? Couldn't they go over the cap to extend them?

I love Burks, but Hill is the missing link. Keep Hill, Hayward, Hood, Exum, Lyles, Favors and Gobert. Everything else is interchangeable. Jazz still have contracts and assets that they can use to sign, trade or draft to fill the role players.
Click to expand...

For renegotiation and extensions, you have to use cap space. For re-signing your own players after their contract is up, you can go over the cap if you have their Bird rights.
 
♪alt13 said:
I feel better after looking at the Spurs salary situation. It doesn't look like they have a viable way to clear space to sign Hill. EDIT: Damnit I just realized that Pau could opt out with a gentleman's agreement. We need to lock Hill up.

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio_spurs/
Click to expand...

Not sure why Pau would do that. The Spurs wouldn`t have any kind of Bird rights AFAIK, meaning that he could not opt out and then re-sign over the cap.
 
If management doesn't put out the money necessary to retain the team they're betraying the fanbase big time. The franchise evaluation has doubled in the last 5 years and projects to grow further as Goodell continues tanking the NFL.
If you went to a broker and told him about an investment that's gonna double within a decade and has almost 0 risk to drop in value...
But we'll see if Lindsey can convince the owners to reinvest some of the money that the franchise has generated back into a contention window.
I like the front loaded salary structure idea for Hill. Not sure if some of the younger guys on the team would be willing to do that as that could affect future contracts potentially.
 
stitches said:
This might be a bit dry, but here's what I got.

Here's the calculations about our current salary total and capspace we have and what we can and what we cannot offer to Hill and/or Favors:

Current Salary Total for the Jazz is: $80,498,192
The Salary cap is: $94,143,000

This means we have 13,644,808 to spend on renegotiate and extend with either Hill or Favors... or both.

We also have about 1M tied in Withey's non-guaranteed contract. Meaning we can get to about 14.65M if we want to by waiving Withey.

The question is... what do we want to do with this 13.6M? Is it enough to extend both Favors and Hill? Or should we choose one? Favors' max is about 22M. This means that if we max him, We will be left with only 2.5M for Hill. In order to see what a reasonable contract for Favors would be I think it would be beneficial to calculate what's the absolute max he can get over the next 4 years if he doesn't renegotiate and extend his current contract - this would be 23M from his current contract and max for the first two years of his new contract(~63M). The total would be around 86M over the next 4 years. I think for the Jazz to have a chance to extend him, they need to make him whole for those 4 years. They need to offer him a renegotiate and extend contract that's at least at that 86M value(or very close). How can we do that? We can front load it or we can back load it. The max we can give him is about 22M in the first year(this year). If want to do both Hill and Favors we probably need to back load Favors' contract. So he would start at say 19M -> 20.5 -> 22 -> 23.5. That gets him to about 85. Lets say that's enough to make him sign it.

This leaves about 5.6M to give to Hill.

The real question here is what do you think he will get as an offer in the summer? Would he get 4/80? 4/64? Maybe 4/100? I don't know. This is the hardest part in this calculation really - I have no idea what he will be looking to get. He will be going into his mid-30s for the duration of this contract - keep this in mind. I think 4/64 is fair, but he might be looking for more. I don't know. Lets say he is OK with getting 16M/year. We are doing the same calculation as above with Favors - what would he get for the first 4 years if he doesn't renegotiate - 8M(this year's salary) + 3x16M =~56M. So the Jazz need to make him whole for those 4 years(we need to give him 56M for those 4 years). We bump his salary for this current year from 8 to 13.6M -> 14.6 -> 15.6 -> 16.6 = ~60.5M This is probably not enough, but lets say he loves it so much that he makes us that discount.

Where would we be after this with salary cap and luxury tax next year?

Here's all players we will have under contract next summer(after renegotiating and extending Hill and Favors to the amounts listed above):

Gobert: 23M
Favors: 20.5M
Hill: 14.6M
Burks: 10.8M
Joe Johnson: 10.5M
Exum:5M
Lyles: 2.5M
Hood: 2.4M
----------------------------
That's 89.3M

The projected salary cap is 103M. The projected luxury tax is 123M.

Before July 1st Hayward will opt out of his 16.7M and his cap hold will jump to ~25M. If we resign Hayward for the max, this would cost us ~28.5M in the first year.

So, best case scenario he stays and we add his 28.5M to the salary sheet and we get 117.8M salary sheet. And we only have 9 players under contract at this point.

Lets say we keep Neto and Bolomboy at 1M each. We have 2 first round picks that would probably be in the 20s, thus they will cost us about 1M each(although the rookie scale might jump so, we don't know yet). That gets us to 13 roster spots and ~121.8M of salaries. We will have MLE so we can sign some minimum level guy or we can sign the second rounders to min contracts, but in general we are dangerously close to the luxury tax. We might need to unload Burks at this point. But for the time being, lets say Gordon gives us a very slight discount so we wouldn't go into the tax.

Here's our roster:

George Hill, Dante Exum, Raul Neto
Rodney Hood, Alec Burks, ???first round pick???
Gordon Hayward, Joe Johnson, ???min vet or second round pick???
Derrick Favors, Trey Lyles, Joel Bolomboy
Rudy Gobert, ??? first round pick???, ???min vet or second round pick???

The year after things might get really dicey with Hood and Exum up for extensions. In general at some point we will need to start making decisions... It pains me to say it because I absolutely love Alec, but he seems like the first potential casualty if we want to keep this core together past the summer of 2018. And even with him gone, it's very possible that we will need to make yet another tough decision about who to keep going past 2018.

(there is another very obvious and easier option, but I'm not sure the Jazz would like it - give all the money to Hill this year in a front-loaded contract that drops significantly later to facilitate keeping the core until 2018. The problem with this option is that Favors will be FA in 2018 and the all decisions will need to be made that summer(Favors, Hood, Exum)).

tl;dr it's probably possible to give both Favors and Hill renegotiate and extend. This however might mean the Jazz would need to find a way to dump Burks' contract sooner or later if they want to avoid luxury tax. Things get even more dicey past 2018, when Exum and Hood would require extensions.
Click to expand...

well-there-it-is.gif


Well done
 
and for this reason I would seriously consider this trade if the pelicans would do it

Hayward, favors and exum or draft picks

Anthony Davis and filler


Hill, Mack, Neto
Hood, filler
Johnson, draft pick Ingles
Davis, Lyles, Bolomboy
Gobert, draft pick

but the front line of gobert and Davis is all world.
 
I can't see Hill's contract being renegotiated unless we trade away Burks. And doing so is a little bit risky at this point when we have yet to see Burks play with this rendition of our team, along with seeing if Hill will return to his Indy-level of play after Hayward returns (keep in mind he also put up some great stats while George was out with injury).


We're lucky to have until February to work this out. If All-star voting was held today, George Hill would be an all-star. He's had an unbelievable start to the season. We could honestly be 0-5 without him at this point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top