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George Karl is not super impressed with our roster moves

Cy said:
Not super impressed by Karl's playoff record.

He has a point with the whole Millsap/Kanter thing doe.
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Agreed, but this is in retrospect. I think at this point keeping one of them Jefferson or Millsap would have been the right move, especially Millsap. Kanter could have come off the bench or been traded. But I think most of thought Kanter could develop faster into a better player than what has happened so far. But maybe he develops this season....
 
Cy said:
He has a point with the whole Millsap/Kanter thing doe.
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Not really.
Teams often clear out older guys to make way for young, talented players. Keeping Favors over AL was a no-brainer. Despite the all-star appearance in the EC, I'd take Favors right now over Jefferson. They both rebound, but Derrick >>>> Al on the defensive end. Offensively, the ball has to be thrown into Jefferson, often several times, for him to employ multiple fakes before going to the up and under - as teammates just stand around and watch. Derrick has been able to get his chances within the flow of the offense. Big Al may be better on offense but the difference does not make up for Al's weakness on defense. I also like the fact Derrick is $4M cheaper per year.

As for Millsap, yes, he is definitely better than Enes. But keeping Paul would have likely meant also re-signing other vets and going for the 7th/8th seed. So we have Paul and maybe draft a guy like Ennis (or even Hood in that range). To say we got "nothing" for Al and Millsap is disingenuous. The Jazz got cap space, which led to the RJ, Biedrins, Rush deal and a few extra picks, the first of which netted us Hood. And the Jazz went into rebuild, ensuring a top-10 draft pick, which turned out to be Exum.

Sure, it would have been nice to get some extra picks for either player. Rumors had them both on the market for a couple of years. I think we can assume bad contracts would have headed our way, which would have prevented the team from being major players in the 2013 free agent market. And we were big players by taking on those GS contracts for picks.
 
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ncoloradojazz said:
he has more basketball iq in one finger then you and the rest in this post have combined.
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Karl has the worst winning percentage in the playoffs of any coach in NBA History with at least 100 playoff games coached - including a 1 vs. 8 seed elimination

He's arguably the worst "big name" coach of all time.
 
George Karl is a good coach, but likely would be a bad GM.

Coaches make decisions regarding winning now... GM's should make decisions based on winning long term. Which is why if I was DL I'd be calling SVG and Flip in Minny every day... they are both GMs and coaches. Their owners are asking for some bad decisions.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Not really.
Teams often clear out older guys to make way for young, talented players. Keeping Favors over AL was a no-brainer. Despite the all-star appearance in the EC, I'd take Favors right now over Jefferson. They both rebound, but Derrick >>>> Al on the defensive end. Offensively, the ball has to be thrown into Jefferson, often several times, for him to employ multiple fakes before going to the up and under - as teammates just stand around and watch. Derrick has been able to get his chances within the flow of the offense. Big Al may be better on offense but the difference does not make up for Al's weakness on defense. I also like the fact Derrick is $4M cheaper per year.

As for Millsap, yes, he is definitely better than Enes. But keeping Paul would have likely meant also re-signing other vets and going for the 7th/8th seed. So we have Paul and maybe draft a guy like Ennis (or even Hood in that range). To say we got "nothing" for Al and Millsap is disingenuous. The Jazz got cap space, which led to the RJ, Biedrins, Rush deal and a few extra picks, the first of which netted us Hood. And the Jazz went into rebuild, ensuring a top-10 draft pick, which turned out to be Exum.

Sure, it would have been nice to get some extra picks for either player. Rumors had them both on the market for a couple of years. I think we can assume bad contracts would have headed our way, which would have prevented the team from being major players in the 2013 free agent market. And we were big players by taking on those GS contracts for picks.
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Problem is Millsap is too small for the system Corbin was trying to run (dump the ball down to your big and let him go to work). Millsap is PERFECT for Quin's system. A tough, rebounding, hustling big who can step out and shoot the 3 ball, and finish on the move.
 
Broncster said:
Agreed, but this is in retrospect. I think at this point keeping one of them Jefferson or Millsap would have been the right move, especially Millsap. Kanter could have come off the bench or been traded. But I think most of thought Kanter could develop faster into a better player than what has happened so far. But maybe he develops this season....
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We can still "keep" Millsap by going after him as a free agent. But without freeing up all that money and doing the GS deal (and going young in the process), Utah might have drafted a guy like Tyler Ennis with their pick and not had Exum and Hood. If Exum turns out to be a bust, then it really doesn't matter if the Jazz went for the playoffs last season and this one or tried to rebuild. With the vets, the Jazz would be treading water, always trying to sneak into the playoffs but never having a chance to contend.

Also, what I do think is a HUGE step forward is that not making the playoffs allowed Lindsey to justify letting Ty go. I have no doubt he'd still be the coach if Utah had kept Millsap, DMC and Foye and made the playoffs as the 8th seed.

I agree with you, One Love; Millsap might be a good fit in Quin's system. Just not sure if he's on the wrong side of 30, though, to justify giving him a big FA contract.
 
Stifle Tower said:
Despite the all-star appearance in the EC, I'd take Favors right now over Jefferson...I also like the fact Derrick is $4M cheaper per year.
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1. Al's never been an all-star.

2. $13.5mm - $12mm = $4mm?

Stifle Tower said:
Rumors had them both on the market for a couple of years. I think we can assume bad contracts would have headed our way, which would have prevented the team from being major players in the 2013 free agent market. And we were big players by taking on those GS contracts for picks.
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1. I think we can assume that Al and Paul could have been dumped without taking on any "bad" contracts.

2. The Jazz weren't major players in the 2013 OR 2014 free agent market. They weren't even linked to anything resembling a star player.

3. Given 1 and 2 above, the relevant question is whether Al and/or Paul could have been moved for a better return than what the Jazz received in the Golden State deal. The 2014 #23 pick (Hood) and what will likely be a late 1st in 2017 isn't exactly a haul for 2 fringe all-stars.

4. A similar argument applies to DL's misstep in contract extension negotiations with Gordo. To this point, DL has done a poor job of planning for and gauging the value of his assets in the future.
 
GVC said:
1. Al's never been an all-star.
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He was not an all star last year? That's a travesty

Edit: just looked it up. No all star game for big al.
 
Cy said:
Not super impressed by Karl's playoff record.

He has a point with the whole Millsap/Kanter thing doe.
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Actually, Neither Millsap or Jefferson were All-stars when they left Utah. I still don't think Al has made an all-star team. I half agree with Karl, the Jazz should have gotten something for them if they weren't in their future plans.
 
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