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God Deniers

Are you a good Canuck?
Are you a good husband?
Are you a good father?

Do you mean if I ever violated laws of the country where I live? I got few speeding tickets... otherwise I am good:). Pay my taxes, obey the laws, volunteer a lot, donate money for charities ( not for churches though! )
Yes
Yes.

The fact that I do not believe in god does not make me bad person.
 
Are you sure? Or is it just a guess based on the fact nobody can be this idiotic?

Yes, 100% certain Pearl is a troll. Her entire purpose is to yank our chains for the hell of it.

And Yes, people really can be this idiotic. They listen to Rush Limbaugh, watch Sean Hannity, buy Glenn Beck tapes, read Anne Coulter books, and attend Tea Party rallies.
 
Yes, 100% certain Pearl is a troll. Her entire purpose is to yank our chains for the hell of it.

And Yes, people really can be this idiotic. They listen to Rush Limbaugh, watch Sean Hannity, buy Glenn Beck tapes, read Anne Coulter books, and attend Tea Party rallies.

FOUR more Years!!!!!!!!
 
Yes, 100% certain Pearl is a troll. Her entire purpose is to yank our chains for the hell of it.

And Yes, people really can be this idiotic. They listen to Rush Limbaugh, watch Sean Hannity, buy Glenn Beck tapes, read Anne Coulter books, and attend Tea Party rallies.

According to you, you have done all these things, idiot.
 
Do you mean if I ever violated laws of the country where I live? I got few speeding tickets... otherwise I am good:). Pay my taxes, obey the laws, volunteer a lot, donate money for charities ( not for churches though! )
Yes
Yes.

The fact that I do not believe in god does not make me bad person.

What type of charities?
What makes you a good father?
What makes you a good husband?

If your 8 year old isn't confused about whether he should piss himself with fear or get a lil boner when you say "God," then you haven't given him an adequate education in American Evangelicalism. End of story. Oh, and American Evangelicalism is the best kind. kthx.
 
"I find it as difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." - Wernher von Braun (considered to be the greatest rocket scientist of all time by NASA)

"The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concetrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power." - Nikola Tesla

"Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind "- Isaac Newton

"I am aware that a philosopher's ideas are not subject to the judgment of ordinary persons, because it is his endeavour to seek the truth in all things, to the extent permitted to human reason by God." - Nicolaus Copernicus

"The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you." - Werner Heisenberg (Noble Prize in Physics for Quantum Mechanics)

All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter" - Max Planck (Father of Quantum Mechanics, also Noble Prize Physics)

"We can only know God well when we know our own sin. And those who have known God without knowing their wretchedness have not glorified Him but have glorified themselves." -Blaise Pascal

"there must be an immortal, unchanging being, ultimately responsible for all wholeness and orderliness in the sensible world." - Aristotle

"the more I study science, the more I believe in God" - Albert Einstein (admittedly a deistic god)

"Nevertheless, amid the greatest difficulties of my Administration, when I could not see any other resort, I would place my whole reliance on God, knowing that all would go well, and that He would decide for the right." - Abraham Lincoln

"Another source of conviction in the existence of God, connected with the reason and not with the feelings, impresses me as having much more weight. This follows from the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capacity of looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting I feel compelled to look to a First Cause having an intelligent mind in some degree analogous to that of man; and I deserve to be called a Theist." -Charles Darwin

Btw the most religious president in terms of references to god and the bible was Bill Clinton.
 
"I find it as difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." - Wernher von Braun (considered to be the greatest rocket scientist of all time by NASA)

"The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concetrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power." - Nikola Tesla

"Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind "- Isaac Newton

"I am aware that a philosopher's ideas are not subject to the judgment of ordinary persons, because it is his endeavour to seek the truth in all things, to the extent permitted to human reason by God." - Nicolaus Copernicus

"The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you." - Werner Heisenberg (Noble Prize in Physics for Quantum Mechanics)

All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter" - Max Planck (Father of Quantum Mechanics, also Noble Prize Physics)

"We can only know God well when we know our own sin. And those who have known God without knowing their wretchedness have not glorified Him but have glorified themselves." -Blaise Pascal

"there must be an immortal, unchanging being, ultimately responsible for all wholeness and orderliness in the sensible world." - Aristotle

"the more I study science, the more I believe in God" - Albert Einstein (admittedly a deistic god)

"Nevertheless, amid the greatest difficulties of my Administration, when I could not see any other resort, I would place my whole reliance on God, knowing that all would go well, and that He would decide for the right." - Abraham Lincoln

"Another source of conviction in the existence of God, connected with the reason and not with the feelings, impresses me as having much more weight. This follows from the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capacity of looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting I feel compelled to look to a First Cause having an intelligent mind in some degree analogous to that of man; and I deserve to be called a Theist." -Charles Darwin

Btw the most religious president in terms of references to god and the bible was Bill Clinton.

Many smart people believe in God. I have no problem at all with this. I hope it gives them a sense of peace, comfort, happiness, etc. As for me, I have no use for invisible friends, but more power to those who do.

I'm pretty certain that many here agree with me in saying this, as well as in saying our problem is more specifically with the more fervent and noisy Evangelicals who are not content to worship as they see fit but feel this overpowering imperative to impose their religious beliefs on others.

While I respect good, honest people of faith (which include the vast majority of the people I love the most on this earth), I loath the pushy, aggressive, loud mouthed, bigoted, backward, sexually uptight, authoritarian, etc. Evangelical movement in this country, which I consider the single greatest threat to American freedoms and civil right/liberties today.
 
What type of charities?
What makes you a good father?
What makes you a good husband?

oh man, those are some tough questions. I can't even remember all of them. Mostly medical - like heart and stroke foundation, cure for prostate cancer or multiple sclerosis, wildlife rehab centre, local humane society and similar. I donated quite a bit of money for Japan earthquake relief for example as well. Not sure why you even asking.
Other questions you should ask my wife and my kids. What is good for one may not be good for other. There is no universal recipe.
 
"I find it as difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." - Wernher von Braun (considered to be the greatest rocket scientist of all time by NASA)

"The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concetrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power." - Nikola Tesla

"Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind "- Isaac Newton

"I am aware that a philosopher's ideas are not subject to the judgment of ordinary persons, because it is his endeavour to seek the truth in all things, to the extent permitted to human reason by God." - Nicolaus Copernicus

"The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you." - Werner Heisenberg (Noble Prize in Physics for Quantum Mechanics)

All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter" - Max Planck (Father of Quantum Mechanics, also Noble Prize Physics)

"We can only know God well when we know our own sin. And those who have known God without knowing their wretchedness have not glorified Him but have glorified themselves." -Blaise Pascal

"there must be an immortal, unchanging being, ultimately responsible for all wholeness and orderliness in the sensible world." - Aristotle

"the more I study science, the more I believe in God" - Albert Einstein (admittedly a deistic god)

"Nevertheless, amid the greatest difficulties of my Administration, when I could not see any other resort, I would place my whole reliance on God, knowing that all would go well, and that He would decide for the right." - Abraham Lincoln

"Another source of conviction in the existence of God, connected with the reason and not with the feelings, impresses me as having much more weight. This follows from the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capacity of looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting I feel compelled to look to a First Cause having an intelligent mind in some degree analogous to that of man; and I deserve to be called a Theist." -Charles Darwin

Btw the most religious president in terms of references to god and the bible was Bill Clinton.


And you point is? None of this proves that god exists. It is fine to believe in it, does not mean you can prove it;).
 
Many smart people believe in God. I have no problem at all with this. I hope it gives them a sense of peace, comfort, happiness, etc. As for me, I have no use for invisible friends, but more power to those who do.

I'm pretty certain that many here agree with me in saying this, as well as in saying our problem is more specifically with the more fervent and noisy Evangelicals who are not content to worship as they see fit but feel this overpowering imperative to impose their religious beliefs on others.

While I respect good, honest people of faith (which include the vast majority of the people I love the most on this earth), I loath the pushy, aggressive, loud mouthed, bigoted, backward, sexually uptight, authoritarian, etc. Evangelical movement in this country, which I consider the single greatest threat to American freedoms and civil right/liberties today.

Maybe I don't know any of these people, personally. But I found this entirely absurd. What liberties, specifically are thwarted (by the government) by any religious group?
 
1)Poloma. M. M., Pendleton, B. F. (1991). The effects of prayer and prayer experiences on measures of general well-being. Journal of Psychology and Theology, 1, 71-83. This study demonstrated that prayer and prayer experiences have a positive effect on the general health of those who practice it.

2) Laird, S. P., (1991). A preliminary investigation into the role of prayer as a coping technique for adult patients with arthritis (arthritis patients). (Doctoral dissertation, University of Kansas, 1991). Laird found that in arthritis patients 1) having faith in prayer was positively related to better emotional adjustment, 2) praying more days per week was positively related to fewer health concerns, 3) engaging in confessional prayer was positively related to having more health concerns, 4) engaging in receptive prayer was positively related to greater social involvement with friends and relatives.

3) Highfield, M. (1992). Spiritual health of oncology patients: Nurse and patient perspectives. Cancer Nursing, 10, 1-8. Highfield demonstrates that faith is a significant aid for patients dealing with chronic pain.

4)Levin, J. (1994). Religion and health: Is there an association? Is it valid? Is it causal? Social Science and Medicine, v.38, n.11, 1475-82. This study documents how religious practice lessens the effects of sickle-cell anemia.

5) Backus, W. (1997). The healing power of a healthy mind. Minneapolis: Bethany House Publishers. Backus recounts studies showing how faith strengthens the immune system and gives bolstering weapons for patients battling AIDS.

6) Gardner, J., & Lyon, J. (1982). Cancer in Utah Mormon men by lay priesthood level. American Journal of Epidermiology, 116, 243-57. These researchers identified a correlation between regular public worship and lower cancer rates.

7) Enstrom, J. E. (1989). Health practices and cancer mortality among active California Mormons. Journal of National Cancer Institute, 81, 1807-14. This study discovered that for those who do contract cancer, faith is a significant factor in recovery.

8) Graham, T, B., Kaplan, J., Cornoni-Huntley, S., James, C., Becker, C., Hames, S., & Heydon, S. (1978). Frequency of church attendance and blood pressure elevation. Journal of Behavioral Medicine, 1, 37-43. They found that participation in some form of public worship is an effective deterrent against high blood pressure.

9)Comstock, G. & Partridge, K. (1972). Church attendance and health. Journal of Chronic Diseases, 25, 665-72. This study of 91,909 individuals in Maryland found that those who attended church once or more per week had significantly lower death rate from heart disease (50% reduction), emphysema (56% reduction), and cirrhosis of the liver (74% reduction).

10) Cerrato, Paul L. (1998). Spirituality and healing. RN, 2, 49. Cerrato found that faith elevated the general health of patients.

11) In 2001 Schnittker in the “Journal for the scientific study of religion” examined a data set of 2,836 adults from the general population and he found religious involvement had no significant relationship with depression. He also found that religiousness was a buffer against mental distress.

12) In 2002 Smith, McCullough and Poll, in their journal “A meta analytic review of the religiousness-depression association: evidence for main effects and stress buffering effects” carried out an analysis of over 200 social studies and found that high religiousness predicts a rather lower risk of depression, drug abuse and fewer suicide attempts

13) In 2002 Bryan Johnson and colleagues of the University of Pennsylvania Centre for Research on Religion and Urban Civil Society reviewed 498 studies that had been published in peer reviewed journals. They concluded that a large majority of studies showed a positive correlation between religious commitment and higher levels of perceived well-being and self esteem, and lower levels of hypertension, depression and criminal delinquency.

14) In the Handbook of Religion and Health, edited by Harold Koenig, Michael McCullough and David Larson. The authors reviewed 2,000 published experiments designed to test the relationship between religion and various medical conditions such as heart disease, cancer and depression. The overall results were that religious people tend to live longer and have physically healthier lives. Young people have significantly lower levels of drug and alcohol abuse, criminal delinquency and attempted suicide.

15) Even in China an officially non-religious state. A recent study by Paul Badham and Xinzhong Yao for the Ian Ramsey Centre at Oxford University, reported that a majority of those felt religious experiences had a positive effect on their lives.

16) In 2000, Political Scientist and Professor Robert Putnam surveyed 200 volunteer organisations and it showed that there was a positive correlation between religiosity and membership of volunteer organisations.

17) The Index of Global Philanthropy, 2007 states: “Religious people are more charitable than non-religious not only in giving to their own congregations, but also – regardless of income, region, social class, and other demographic variables – significantly more charitable in their secular donations and informal giving.”

Here are 17 quick resources which show the benefits of praying and religion including giving more charity not only to religious organizations but to secular ones, health beneifts such as resistence to disease and prolonged life, social benefits and happiness.

In addition there is a book called "Who Really Cares" by Arthur Brooks and it showed something very surprising.
He broke down people into 4 groups
1) Conservative religious people
2) Liberal religious people
3) Conservative irreligious people
4) Liberal irreligious people

To his surprise he found that by far group 1 gave the most charity followed by 2, 3, and then 4. What surprised him even more is that on average the poor southern family gives more not only in percent income but in overall money then the rich liberal secular family in San Francisco.

It is no surprise that the atheist Karl Marx himself said that religious gives unique benefits that are irreplaceable. When a Jewish Colleague of his asked if he should raise his son Jewish, Karl Marx insisted that he should.

God Bless.
 
Maybe I don't know any of these people, personally. But I found this entirely absurd. What liberties, specifically are thwarted (by the government) by any religious group?

Liberty to marry the person you love.
Gay rights in general.
Reproductive choice.
Freedom of religion (witness Evangelical opposition to Muslim mosques, Wican activities, etc.)
Freedom to teach actual science without interference

To name just a few. Those are some pretty damned big liberties.

It's not always that case that they are actively thwarting liberties at the moment, but you can be damn certain that they will should they seize the reigns of power. When has it ever NOT been the case for religious true believers?

I think it might help to ask yourself this question, how secure would you feel that your rights, and those perceived to be on the 'outside' would be protected in a community where Evangelicals had the power to make all the laws?

I realize that any number of groups with such power would abuse it, but then, most of these groups don't have near the influence over policy and policy discourse in the US as the Evangelicals at this point in time.
 
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It is no surprise that the atheist Karl Marx himself said that religious gives unique benefits that are irreplaceable. When a Jewish Colleague of his asked if he should raise his son Jewish, Karl Marx insisted that he should.
.

And nobody is arguing that for some people religion provides numerous benefits. For example I feel way better after hard week of work going fishing on Sunday - it relaxes me, takes stress away, makes me a better person at the end of the day. Same with religion, as I said - it is like teddy bear for adults. Or as the same Karl Marx said " Religion is opium of the people"
But it does not prove that god exists.
Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - nobody yet was able to provide that.
 
1)Poloma. M. M., Pendleton, B. F. (1991). The effects of prayer and prayer experiences on measures of general well-being. Journal of Psychology and Theology, 1, 71-83. This study demonstrated that prayer and prayer experiences have a positive effect on the general health of those who practice it.

2) Laird, S. P., (1991). A preliminary investigation into the role of prayer as a coping technique for adult patients with arthritis (arthritis patients). (Doctoral dissertation, University of Kansas, 1991). Laird found that in arthritis patients 1) having faith in prayer was positively related to better emotional adjustment, 2) praying more days per week was positively related to fewer health concerns, 3) engaging in confessional prayer was positively related to having more health concerns, 4) engaging in receptive prayer was positively related to greater social involvement with friends and relatives.

3) Highfield, M. (1992). Spiritual health of oncology patients: Nurse and patient perspectives. Cancer Nursing, 10, 1-8. Highfield demonstrates that faith is a significant aid for patients dealing with chronic pain.

4)Levin, J. (1994). Religion and health: Is there an association? Is it valid? Is it causal? Social Science and Medicine, v.38, n.11, 1475-82. This study documents how religious practice lessens the effects of sickle-cell anemia.

5) Backus, W. (1997). The healing power of a healthy mind. Minneapolis: Bethany House Publishers. Backus recounts studies showing how faith strengthens the immune system and gives bolstering weapons for patients battling AIDS.

6) Gardner, J., & Lyon, J. (1982). Cancer in Utah Mormon men by lay priesthood level. American Journal of Epidermiology, 116, 243-57. These researchers identified a correlation between regular public worship and lower cancer rates.

7) Enstrom, J. E. (1989). Health practices and cancer mortality among active California Mormons. Journal of National Cancer Institute, 81, 1807-14. This study discovered that for those who do contract cancer, faith is a significant factor in recovery.

8) Graham, T, B., Kaplan, J., Cornoni-Huntley, S., James, C., Becker, C., Hames, S., & Heydon, S. (1978). Frequency of church attendance and blood pressure elevation. Journal of Behavioral Medicine, 1, 37-43. They found that participation in some form of public worship is an effective deterrent against high blood pressure.

9)Comstock, G. & Partridge, K. (1972). Church attendance and health. Journal of Chronic Diseases, 25, 665-72. This study of 91,909 individuals in Maryland found that those who attended church once or more per week had significantly lower death rate from heart disease (50% reduction), emphysema (56% reduction), and cirrhosis of the liver (74% reduction).

10) Cerrato, Paul L. (1998). Spirituality and healing. RN, 2, 49. Cerrato found that faith elevated the general health of patients.

11) In 2001 Schnittker in the “Journal for the scientific study of religion” examined a data set of 2,836 adults from the general population and he found religious involvement had no significant relationship with depression. He also found that religiousness was a buffer against mental distress.

12) In 2002 Smith, McCullough and Poll, in their journal “A meta analytic review of the religiousness-depression association: evidence for main effects and stress buffering effects” carried out an analysis of over 200 social studies and found that high religiousness predicts a rather lower risk of depression, drug abuse and fewer suicide attempts

13) In 2002 Bryan Johnson and colleagues of the University of Pennsylvania Centre for Research on Religion and Urban Civil Society reviewed 498 studies that had been published in peer reviewed journals. They concluded that a large majority of studies showed a positive correlation between religious commitment and higher levels of perceived well-being and self esteem, and lower levels of hypertension, depression and criminal delinquency.

14) In the Handbook of Religion and Health, edited by Harold Koenig, Michael McCullough and David Larson. The authors reviewed 2,000 published experiments designed to test the relationship between religion and various medical conditions such as heart disease, cancer and depression. The overall results were that religious people tend to live longer and have physically healthier lives. Young people have significantly lower levels of drug and alcohol abuse, criminal delinquency and attempted suicide.

15) Even in China an officially non-religious state. A recent study by Paul Badham and Xinzhong Yao for the Ian Ramsey Centre at Oxford University, reported that a majority of those felt religious experiences had a positive effect on their lives.

16) In 2000, Political Scientist and Professor Robert Putnam surveyed 200 volunteer organisations and it showed that there was a positive correlation between religiosity and membership of volunteer organisations.

17) The Index of Global Philanthropy, 2007 states: “Religious people are more charitable than non-religious not only in giving to their own congregations, but also – regardless of income, region, social class, and other demographic variables – significantly more charitable in their secular donations and informal giving.”

Here are 17 quick resources which show the benefits of praying and religion including giving more charity not only to religious organizations but to secular ones, health beneifts such as resistence to disease and prolonged life, social benefits and happiness.

In addition there is a book called "Who Really Cares" by Arthur Brooks and it showed something very surprising.
He broke down people into 4 groups
1) Conservative religious people
2) Liberal religious people
3) Conservative irreligious people
4) Liberal irreligious people

To his surprise he found that by far group 1 gave the most charity followed by 2, 3, and then 4. What surprised him even more is that on average the poor southern family gives more not only in percent income but in overall money then the rich liberal secular family in San Francisco.

It is no surprise that the atheist Karl Marx himself said that religious gives unique benefits that are irreplaceable. When a Jewish Colleague of his asked if he should raise his son Jewish, Karl Marx insisted that he should.

God Bless.

And Robert Putnam found that more religious communities have a dearth of social capital compared to less religious communities in Italy.

BFD

I still don't get your point. Is someone saying that being religious makes you selfish or being agnostic/atheistic makes you generous? Who you arguing with?
 
And nobody is arguing that for some people religion provides numerous benefits. For example I feel way better after hard week of work going fishing on Sunday - it relaxes me, takes stress away, makes me a better person at the end of the day. Same with religion, as I said - it is like teddy bear for adults. Or as the same Karl Marx said " Religion is opium of the people"
But it does not prove that god exists.
Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - nobody yet was able to provide that.

Quran 6:25
And among them are those who listen to you, but We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. Even when they come to you arguing with you, those who disbelieve say, "This is not but legends of the former peoples."
 
Liberty to marry the person you love.
Gay rights in general.
Reproductive choice.
Freedom of religion (witness Evangelical opposition to Muslim mosques, Wican activities, etc.)
Freedom to teach actual science without interference

To name just a few. Those are some pretty damned big liberties.

It's not always that case that they are actively thwarting liberties at the moment, but you can be damn certain that they will should they seize the reigns of power. When has it ever NOT been the case for religious true believers?

Freedom to redefine marriage
Freedom to kill your baby
Freedom to fly planes into buildings and then build a huge **** you mosque afterwards
Freedom to teach the liberal creation myth to Christian children without interference

Those are some damn big essential liberties!
 
Liberty to marry the person you love.
Gay rights in general.
Reproductive choice.
Freedom of religion (witness Evangelical opposition to Muslim mosques, Wican activities, etc.)
Freedom to teach actual science without interference

To name just a few. Those are some pretty damned big liberties.

It's not always that case that they are actively thwarting liberties at the moment, but you can be damn certain that they will should they seize the reigns of power. When has it ever NOT been the case for religious true believers?

I don't know that you answered my question, per se, but I like your posts, so I'm not picking a fight. I think most all groups have a far-fetched view of another. Catholics vs. Mormons, Dems vs. Pubs, rednecks vs. northeasterners .. I think we're predisposed to assume the worst, believe the worst, all in an attempt to justify a paradigm or position.
 
Can't wait for heaven you guys!! I hope people still play basketball there.
 
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