Got into a pretty heated debate with my wife last night about race.
- Thread starter Beer
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Beer
Well-Known Member
Lololol, no. Did it hurt? Absolutely not. He happened to be born into an area with a ton of land in an era where it was pretty much free for the taking. He did it, worked it for decades, and succeeded until his exit. Now would a black person in the same area not have even had the chance to do that? Possibly, not for certain, but it's possible. Would that land have sat vacant despite having black suitors offering to buy it until a white man finally came around to make a deal? I guess it's possible. But once again not an absolute certainty. Now particular example did not happen in the deep south 1940's and if it had my mind might be changed to yours pretty easily. But it didn't.
Not 80 years ago, for 80 years.
I do completely agree that slavery should be taught much more in depth in school. Completely agree.
Read my earlier post. Blacks have been systematically repressed from gaining wealth for generations. Blacks in general continue, on average, to attended subpar schools, it is an ongoing cycle.
So a black person, in general would not have the same opportunities as a white person. Search for black land loss and see how we have systematically hurt blacks. The homestead act occurred while slavery was still legal in the South, and racism in the North was still rampant. The statistics don't lie, blacks have not been able to participate in the economic opportunities in this country from day one.
Even the Freedmen's bureau, which was designed to give land to freed slaves was when a very racist President Johnson overturned the order.
Google redlining. In the 1930s, surveyors with the Federal Home Owners' Loan Corp drew maps with areas banks should not lend, and those red lines were all largely black communities. Again, this was condoned by the U.S. Government!
Redlining was eventually outlawed in the 60's IIRC, but we still see discrimination in lending today. The AP did a study two years ago in 48 cities, and showed blacks with similar credit were turned away at significantly higher rates than whites in all 48 cities. Simply put, blacks have not had equal footing to opportunities for economic prosperity, and continue not to have opportunities.
Beer
Well-Known Member
I completely agree with your 1st paragraph. I am aware and understand that. I also am very aware and understand redlining. Terrible practice. Outlawed in 68 I believe. Another argument my wife had was it "was illegal for blacks to own land until the 60's" Nope, not true. Now once again, had my grandpa been in the South or Chicago, or Boston, or pretty much any major metro you'd have a better point. But no, he was born in and raised in po dunk, middle of nowhere, schools were pretty much non existent ( so the whole education thing is irrelevant to this argument. Once again, nuance), no college for sure. So to recap he was born into an area with little to no economic opportunities, little to no education opportunities, took a chance and toiled for 50 years until **** happened to work out in his favor. Not sure how being white gave him his success on a silver platter but whatever.
Now for the millionth time, him being white did not hurt, but to act like it was the main or sole factor in his success is bull **** and is a ****ing lazy boring argument.
Safetydan
Well-Known Member
Whatever your success your granddaddy obtained during his lifetime he earned in the context of being white. It's not his fault that he had access to the success that he did or that he didn't work hard for it. It's the fact that if he were black it's virtually guaranteed that he would have had no access to that financial opportunity in the first place, or it would have been forcefully taken away from him at some point.
I don't think anyone is saying that, are they? Let's not say you have "white privilege" to say you got these things only because you are white. The privilege is you got these things by working hard and you weren't oppressed because of your skin tone from systematic government practices. The issue is that if your grandfather was black, he'd work just as hard but likely not get the same opportunities. Does this happen with every black person? No. But as I pointed above in my original post, the land opportunities in this country, and the future income it created for generations left blacks out of the equation, and it has perpetuated. The redlining and other practices have held blacks back, period. So your grandpa didn't succeed because he was white. We all agree on that. But he likely would not have succeeded if he were black.
Beer
Well-Known Member
Well Cy, A white male said "And yes, your grandpa being white is the predominant factor in why he became a millionaire. It's the most important trait in that scenario." No it's not the predominant factor. It didn't hurt
I've watched a decent amount of this guys videos. He is a moron. I did like his Ben Shapiro one though. That was good.
I've watched a decent amount of this guys videos. He is a moron. I did like his Ben Shapiro one though. That was good.
Beer
Well-Known Member
Well Cy is saying exactly that. My point is this " A poor as white person born in butt fu Kentucky living a **** life working a **** job, for **** pay, almost completely due to where he was born is probably very confused as to what his White Privilege is. And before this goes off into the weeds, I acknowledge White Privilege is a thing, just that where you are born and when you are born is close to if not just as big a factor in a persons success as just race. My relatives did not only succeed because of race, although it did not hurt. Despite what white male Cy has to say.
That isn't it at all. Nothing says you can't be disadvantaged if you are white. No one is saying that. Yes, there are poor people from every race.
But as a race, blacks have been systemically oppressed in this country. As a race white's have not. So the privilege or oppression is a totality, that if you are white, you are less likely to be oppressed, and if black you are much more likely.
So again, if your grandfather was black, there would be a MUCH higher likelihood that he would not have succeeded, as he likely would have been oppressed multiple times along the way. A hard barrier to overcome.
Hell, in simple terms, think of an NBA team with a star player and a team with no star players. If the refs are giving all the calls to the star player, what chance does the other team have? It doesn't take much to hold a person down.
Stats don't lie:
Nine Charts about Wealth Inequality in America (Updated)
These nine charts illustrate what’s behind growing wealth disparities, particularly the racial wealth gap.
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Bruh no one said being white GAVE it to him, but him being white ALLOWED it to happen. It's the most important factor. If it was changed, it would not be possible, or chances for success would be virtually non-existent because of all the obstacles that would be put up for a non-white person, both past/present/future/conscious/unconscious.
The fact that you are choosing to misunderstand what I'm saying when it's in pretty plain language and contained in a small post tells me you have a lot of repressed white guilt.
Safetydan
Well-Known Member
Less so compared to most willing to put out this kind of content.
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What does parents have to do with it? Bear in mind, I don't know much about American education system.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
People have kids, oftentimes many kids, who shouldn’t be parents. Plain and simple. The kids hit the school system. Like their parents, they’re a mess, unmotivated, have ODD, and on and on. It’s a great cycle.
I can't speak to NJ, but subpar schooling is definitely true in most of the Midwest, cities like Boston in the NE, etc.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
Lmfao.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
And you’re basing this off of?