Government to shut down at Midnight

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ONE LOVE, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. ONE LOVE

    ONE LOVE #Baby_Talk Staff Member

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    So what's Trump's excuse for not being able to get the Mexicans to pay for the Wall as he'd promised?
     

  2. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    That was dumb **** he said during the campaign that was obviously unrealistic then. Since becoming the President he hasn't been pushing that line nearly as much, and when he has, the times I'm familiar with, he has spun it that they will be paying indirectly based on his most wonderful trade deals and such.

    There's no excuse at this point. No one ever really expected Mexico to pay for the wall.
     
  3. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    Awww yes. The wonderful trade deals have yet to be ratified in congress? The wonderful trade deals that Donald can’t even begin to describe how they’ll pay for the construction and maintenance of a wall? Those trade deals?! Lol
     
  4. ONE LOVE

    ONE LOVE #Baby_Talk Staff Member

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    He mentioned something about all the extra tariffs the Government is getting from the Chinese though in that press conference.

    Shouldn't he be able to use all that extra tariffs (which was all his idea) and pay for the wall? I mean it was his idea and they wouldn't have that if it wasn't for him?
     
  5. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    That's not how it works. So no.
     
  6. ONE LOVE

    ONE LOVE #Baby_Talk Staff Member

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    So he shouldn't get any credit for all the extra money the government makes for the tariffs?
     
  7. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    Sure, he owns those tariffs. He gets all the credit for them. That doesn't give him any greater control over the budget and certainly doesn't give him his own special piggy bank to spend however he pleases.
     
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  8. The Thriller

    The Thriller Well-Known Member

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    1. How much additional revenue is the government making off these new tariffs? I’d love a dollar figure. How much of those revenues can be used for wall funding?

    2. How much is Donald’s wall projected to cost to build and maintain? Do we even know what it will be built of? In just the past few weeks Donald has said concrete, steel, solar panels, and pikes so it’s transparent. John kelly in just the past few weeks said it’s a fence.
    2b. Have we figured the environmental costs? Or the imminent domain costs to buy out land owners along the Rio?

    3. How much more (or less) revenue is our government receiving when the farm bailouts from the trade war have figured into the picture? What does it matter if we take a few million more in tariff revenue if we are spending billions to bail out american soybean farmers who have lost their primary market, China?

    These are basic questions that I haven’t seen any trump official answer.
     
  9. ONE LOVE

    ONE LOVE #Baby_Talk Staff Member

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    Yeah but if it wasn't for him there wouldn't be those extra revenue in the budget. You can't have it both ways, LOL ..
     
  10. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    You're right, you can't have it both ways. You can only have it one way, the way our laws dictate that it is done. That's the one way you can have it.
     
  11. ONE LOVE

    ONE LOVE #Baby_Talk Staff Member

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    What I meant was you can't get the extra money that Trump makes via his business savy-ness but not have Trump be the President.. you can't have both.

    What would you rather have: No tariffs money + No wall OR Tariffs money + Wall.

    I'd rather take tariffs money + Wall for border security.
     
  12. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    No Tariffs, no wall, no Trump, tyvm.

    We can always raise taxes (aka tariffs) and say "hey, look at this extra money!" That's not business savvy. There has been no evidence that Trump is or has ever been particularly good at business.
     
  13. ONE LOVE

    ONE LOVE #Baby_Talk Staff Member

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    I'm not talking about no Trump, he's already the President. I'm talking about tariffs vs the wall.

    No tariffs money + No wall OR Tariffs money + Wall.

    Forget about Trump - which would you rather have?
     
  14. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    You already have my answer.
     
  15. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Well-Known Member

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    Neither. Why would we want things that hurt us?
     
  16. ONE LOVE

    ONE LOVE #Baby_Talk Staff Member

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    You're trying to include Trump in the equation. I'm trying to be pragmatic. Don't make it about Trump. Think about it objectively.
     
  17. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused about what One Love i saying. He's treating taking away the tariffs as a threat. That's what most want....

    One or the other guys! You can't have those amazing taxes and not build a wall. one or the other! wtf?
     
  18. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    I gave you my answer. Take trump out of it. My answer is the same. The idea that we're "making money" off of tariffs is flawed from the get go. It is a tax. Those things now cost the businesses that need them more, cost the consumers who use them more and so the idea that now there is this "extra" pile of money is false. I'm not in favor of tariffs in general. I'm sure you could show me specific situations where I'd grudgingly say maybe tariffs are needed, but in general I don't support tariffs. So no tariffs, especially not tariffs as a way to express a temper tantrum.

    If a wall gets built I will honestly make it a point to go out and knock part of it down. The wall is the stupidest thing I can even imagine.

    First, it isn't going to accomplish the stated reasons for constructing it.

    1 -- It'll keep drugs out.
    No it won't. There is too much money being made importing drugs into the U.S.. At best it will alter the way drugs are brought in.

    2 -- It'll stop human trafficking.
    No it won't. At present people sometimes make the decision to enter the U.S. illegally because they want to live here instead of wherever they are from. They make a dangerous journey, sometimes they use a "coyote" but they don't always. If there is a physical barrier that prevents these women and children from just walking across, swimming across or driving across then you will be forcing these people to go to organized smugglers to get them across. You will absolutely increase human trafficking. You will create a more organized, more profitable opportunity for the gatekeepers on the other side of that wall.

    3 -- I'll prevent terrorists from entering the U.S.
    No, it won't. If coming across the Mexico/U.S. border is the current easiest way for terrorists to enter then they will switch to the second easiest way. But the reality is that this has not been shown to even be a legitimate concern.

    If you want to cut down on illegal immigration the answer is not a wall. The answer is a much improved process for allowing the people who want to come here and who are not criminals to come here. Let them in through the front door. Vet them. If all the workers, all the refugees all the normal decent people who want to come in are allowed in legally in a relatively quick process then it makes it easier to focus resources finding the people who still don't want to use legal means to enter. It makes it much easier to assume the people entering illegally are doing so for nefarious purposes.

    But that's not what people who want the wall want. They want to protect the U.S. from "those people." They don't want more of them to enter legally, they want less of them to enter altogether. The wall is not so much an actual solution to their concerns, it is an artistic representation of just how much "we" don't want "them" here. That's all the stupid ****ing wall is, just a big middle finger pointed at Mexico.
     
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  19. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Well-Known Member

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    No dude, a tax that hurts the economy or a $6b monument to bigotry and apartheid. One or the other.
     
  20. Bulletproof

    Bulletproof All-Jazzfanz First Team! Contributor 2018 Award Winner

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    Okay you got me, please give me the tax and the monument to bigotry. How could I give up one just to also lose out on the other? That would be silly of me.
     

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