Grayson Allen 2nd Season

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by Saint Cy of JFC, May 25, 2019.

  1. jimmy eat jazz

    jimmy eat jazz Well-Known Member

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    CJ has forged a nice NBA career. If Allen becomes a consistent rotation player like CJ, that's a big win for him and Jazz.
     
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  2. stitches

    stitches Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see it with Grayson at draft time, I don't see it even more after year 1, but he showed some interesting things the last couple of games. I wouldn't mind keeping him and seeing how he develops in the off-season and what he shows next year, but I also wouldn't mind it if we used him in a Lyles type of way to move up for a player we really like in this draft... Just an example - BOS was supposedly high on Allen pre-draft, if they want 23+Allen for a player we love at 14... I'd do that.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  3. Ellis269

    Ellis269 Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t care for the pick at the time, but I’ve warmed up to him at this point. He’s more athletic than I expected and seems to have a solid work ethic.

    Wouldn’t be opposed to seeing him included in a trade for a bigger fish, but I suspect he’ll end up as a solid backup combo guard.
     
  4. jimmy eat jazz

    jimmy eat jazz Well-Known Member

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    I imagine that if you randomly pick any big name, blue chip school you will find plenty of players who suck in the NBA (e.g., NC, UCLA, Kansas, Indiana, Kentucky have all had their share), plus plenty who have done well. Duke stands out for the relative quantity of players it's placed in the NBA, of which you would expect some non-trivial share to underwhelm.

    The NBA, for that matter, is full of players who wowed in college but who wowed comparatively less in the NBA. I don't see what your point proves: yeah, some players who were great in college are less great in the NBA. This is true for Duke as well. So what?
     
  5. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Point is do we want to devote a roster spot to someone who might, in 5 years or so, turn into a 9 ppg bench player.
     
  6. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    I like Grayson more know than at draft time. Here is my take... he never got consistent playing time and had an ill-timed injury that prevented him from really getting comfortable out there. He had those couple good games, but the Clips game was kinda a joke and he got almost too much freedom. I think he needed this year of adjustment. You could see him thinking too much out there.

    The Good:
    - I have no doubt he will be a good shooter. Good mechanics and on balance. I think his low percentages were due in part to spotty playing time. It's hard to come off the bench and shoot well. It just is.
    - He gets by his primary defender regularly, mostly on catch and go, but I think he's got a good first step too. I think he can get the blender going... the issue was shooting too many weird short/mid range shots because he didn't know what to do once he got by his man. He seems to be able to get where he wants to.
    - He looks big... he looks like he belongs... that is somewhat important. I remember watching Nik Stauskas up close and he just looked like a jr. high kid playing against varsity.
    - If he pans out he is at one of the most valuable positions and there is positional scarcity there.

    The Bad:
    - The defense was putrid to start the season, but he did improve to a point where it was not a complete disaster. I think he wants to be a good defender and will give energy there. Part of it was not knowing where to be... He actually made a handful of good defensive plays (blocked shots, stepping in front of guys, etc.) that were encouraging. I think as he gets more comfortable that part should improve.
    - He does nothing on the basketball court outside of scoring. I had hoped he'd get some rebounds, steals, loose balls, and be a scrapper. Maybe his brain neutered those activities a bit, but the rates were so low that I can't see him ever being good at that stuff.
    - I think he played scared... you could see him thinking... see him not sure he's in the right spot. He may get more comfortable, but I would obviously rather have a guy that looks fearless. One of the unique things about DM is he would keep shooting and making mistakes and it didn't seem to destroy him... he had a loooooonnnnggg leash, but even when Quin would pull him aside you could tell he had confidence and would just take the coaching nod his head and move to the next play.

    I'm encouraged by Grayson overall. I think @Saint Cy of JFC kinda pegged it with a Rodney Hood type comp. I think it was Cy... forgive me if I'm wrong. I think that Grayson will be better at drawing fouls though which will make him more efficient. Overall I think Allen probably tops out as a great 3rd guard, bench gunner. I think the floor is pretty high too. Dude will be in the league in 10 years... solid pick. There are guys I'd rather have, but guys like Holiday were not guys I wanted at draft time so that's all hindsight on my part.
     
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  7. jimmy eat jazz

    jimmy eat jazz Well-Known Member

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    Well, a 9 ppg bench player can be a valuable role player. Every roster needs role players like this. So, yes, we do want a roster spot for someone like this. Do we want to wait 5 years for this to happen, no we do not. In Grayson's case, I think he could quickly become a 9 ppg player and wouldn't need five years, could be as early as next year (other deficiencies notwithstanding). Question to me is what is the opportunity cost to keeping him? At this point, it seems pretty low, so why not play it out for a bit and see what happens?
     
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  8. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    Honestly they'd probably pony up a pick straight up for him. They have too many middle first rounders. They need to push some to future years or turn them into non-rookies.

    I wouldn't do that trade if I'm the Jazz unless there is someone they love that slides. Late lotto to early 20s doesn't seem to be a whole lot different.
     
  9. stitches

    stitches Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you don't trade up just to trade up... you trade up for a specific player, supposedly one you've targeted and really REALLY like.
     
  10. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    He will be that next season... I think. His G League stats are encouraging. Let the kid get comfortable. Playing guard in the NBA is hard it takes some time even for older guys. DM spoiled us.
     
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  11. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    Right... I guess it was just more a comment on this year's draft as there doesn't seem to be a huge talent tier or drop off around there.

    Last year if you could move to that range the general talent being drafted late lotto was much better.
     
  12. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

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    We've been hearing that about Exum for what, 3 years now? I'd love to see Allen develop better than that but I'm hedging my bets.
     
  13. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    I think Exum was his own deal. We should know on Grayson after this year. I'm hopeful he contributes. Joe Harris kinda had a slow start and he was older. I'll admit though... most of my hypothesis on Grayson is using the eye test. I didn't expect him to be good last year. I expect him to be functional this year.
     
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  14. SoUjazzfan

    SoUjazzfan Well-Known Member

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    He should have played in the g league at the start of the season and only been brought up when all of our point guards were hurt. I think he needs minutes to be consistent more than any other player we have. As much for confidence as anything. I think he makes the adjustments to the NBA game next season and is servicable.
     
  15. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

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    It seems like the default is to be pessimistic with Grayson, probably to keep expectations low, which in life is necessary, however I think the default with Grayson should be cautiously optimistic. He's shown more ability to score than anyone on the roster not named Donavon. True, it was only a couple games at the end of the season, which is why the cj comparison.

    The difference is the variety of ways he scores. CJ was transition and 3s. Grayson can do it in pick and roll as well as create his own in ways CJ just couldn't. Which is what makes him important to the jazz and why they won't trade him... They need creators and with Rubio out, you're going to see a lot more from Allen next season. Hope what we saw at the end of the year is closer to truth than it was with CJ
     
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  16. gomretat

    gomretat Well-Known Member

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    Most fans draw conclusions on rookies way too soon. Grayson struggled but also showed some positive things. In my opinion the jury is still out and I am optimistic he can be a decent rotational player who can score off the bench.
     
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  17. jazzETX

    jazzETX Active Member

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    if he gets 15-20 min next season, he will be a 10-12 ppg scorer and likely have big scoring outbursts here and there. he had very limited minutes and usage and still ended this past season averaging more ppg than royce or raul.

    exum has athleticism, but doesn't have allen's strength, shooting ability, or overall offensive skill despite being in the league for 5 years. not to mention that exum was taken high lotto and allen late first round. much different expectations.
     
  18. Revolution 9

    Revolution 9 Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    I'm excited to see him play in Summer League.

    Hopefully he stands out, and shows out. I want some hype to take us through the cold dark months of July and August.
     
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  19. Tragic66

    Tragic66 Well-Known Member

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    Who’s Older?
     
  20. Sandman822

    Sandman822 Well-Known Member

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    I'm hoping this too as someone who is admittingly a bit down on Allen as a prospect. I'm hoping to see some actual dominance unlike Lyles who just volume chucked on poor efficiencies.
     

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