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Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by Saint Cy of JFC, May 25, 2019.
Exum is. By a whole 87 days.
Interesting coincidence --
CJ Miles most points scored in an NBA game: 40.
Grayson Allen most points scored in an NBA game: 40.
Took CJ 324 games. Grayson did it in 38 so he’s more than 8 times better than CJ according to my logic.
He definitely scored with greater ease than jimmer, did you watch the suns games?
exum is older by a few months but i don't see how this is relevant.
This again. Allen put up a 7.5 PER his rookie season. Here is a list of every single rookie season between 7.0 and 8.0 PER. 226 players and the only non-busts here are Draymond and Zach Collins? Maybe you can find some more in there, I got tired of looking.
Steve Nash averaged 3.3 ppg his rookie season.
John Stockton averaged 5.6 ppg his rookie year and 7.7 his sophmore year.
Jimmy Butler averaged 2.6 ppg his rookie season.
Those would be better comparisons, as they were playing behind very good players their rookie season alla Grayson Allen.
Well it’s relevant re their timelines to improve and current skill sets.
It's deja vu all over again!
On a semi-relevant note, does anyone remember the tv commercial with John Stockton and Frank Layden where Stockton played the piano? It was for some bank. Anyway, while John is playing a song, Frank says something like "I knew that kid had talent". I think it was still airing at the beginning of Stockton's 3rd season. He was backing up Ricky Green. He must have been 24 or 25. I just remember thinking it's a good thing he has other talents because after this much time (he still couldn't shoot) this is probably all he's going to be as an NBA player.
All three put up better efficiency numbers than Allen. Nash and Stockton were significantly better. Maybe Grayson will get it turned around next season, but it's not looking good. RXum part 2.
Talking about efficiency numbers on 2.6 ppg or 3.3 ppg.
How can you not see how those numbers could be easily skewed?
PER based on they
PER based on their season stats. Stockton played 1500 minutes his rookie season. Anyway, if the stats were so "skewed" like you say, then the list I sent you would have a lot of good players on it... It doesn't.
And Grayson played 416 minutes. Most of the time in stints that hardly allow for finding any rhythm. So no, there’s no real point in going by the numbers.
Correlation doesn't mean causation. You shouldn't draw conclusions or an statistical finding because "x" number of players don't appear on a list based on a criteria selected by you. In that sense: I) why PER? a ii)Why a range of 7-8 III)has it been determined that PER is a reliable measurement for future rookie success? Iv) same for efficiency, Is it a good criteria? Is PER the best measurement for it? V) is the data on rookies reliable? Are you cleaning the data by ensuring you only have rookies that have a minimum number of minutes or field goals attempted (especially if you decide PER is the variable to use) vi) even then, data might be skewed bc of when those minutes/attempts happened.
Anyway, appreciate you are trying to bring numbers to back up your claim. But it's not so easy to draw a firm conclusion when your criteria/numbers might be flawed.
I am gonna eat some crow. He wasnt as bad as I thought. I think he's gonna end up a decent - to - good pick.
Utah needs him IMO, they cant do this gimmicky bs offense again, even if its mismatched they need to throw the full firepower out there.
I still definitely woulda taken Anfernee Simons tho, he can function in a similar capacity, and he is much more ready than ppl realize. Both of these guys showd nice flashes down the final stretch of the szn.
I always thought the Jazz made a great pick last year with Allen. The kid has potential and a passion for the game, he'll be in the league for a long time.
I thought it was a typical Jazz pick since he a white kid and I also thought wow what a wasted pick because didn't think his game would translate and he a punk too on top of it.
If Allen turns into a rotational player, I will be happy. If we get more than that, cool. But seriously, this is getting ridiculous.
By your own logic, Allen is already better than Exum. 7.5 vs 5.7 in their respective rookie campaigns. Let the play hash out for a while before we jump to conclusions, shall we?
I was responding to a post where someone said that it was too early to tell if Allen would turn out. I've noticed that is a common argument around here, that we have to wait some number of seasons to see if these guys are any good. I was curious about Allen, so I looked at every rookie season in history that is similar to Allen. If the post was right, I expected to find that there was a lot of guys that did eventually turn out well, along with a lot of busts. But, it turned out 99% of the players with similar PER rookie seasons to Allen went bust.
Now, if there is some other metric that points to Allen having a chance, I'm also curious to see that.