Grayson Allen Apology Thread

jazzfan1971

Well-Known Member
I didn't see his last game, so I'm probably not riding the high you guys are. But from what I've seen, he's a horrific defender. He is a poor playmaker. He's turnover prone. His shot is iffy. He is a pretty decent penetrator. Can finish at the rim pretty well.

Most of all the Jazz seem to just die when he is on the floor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his +/- was lowest on the Jazz and pretty bad league wide for players with his minutes.

He will have to take the JJ Reddick path if he wants an NBA career. Not many guys are able to become passable defenders like Reddick did. Grayson has the athleticism to get there if his brain is up to the task. I'd think with 4 years of college he would have learned to play D already. Some guys you just can't teach.
 

Ostertag>Duncan

My Members Premium
Contributor
2019 Award Winner
You can tell DM is rooting for this dude.
Could Donovan Mitchell - Grayson Allen be Utah's future backcourt duo? Q needs to find out next season increasing Allen's PT.
I already called Grayson our Hornacek last summer. Time will tell
 

jazzETX

Well-Known Member
I didn't see his last game, so I'm probably not riding the high you guys are. But from what I've seen, he's a horrific defender. He is a poor playmaker. He's turnover prone. His shot is iffy. He is a pretty decent penetrator. Can finish at the rim pretty well.

Most of all the Jazz seem to just die when he is on the floor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his +/- was lowest on the Jazz and pretty bad league wide for players with his minutes.

He will have to take the JJ Reddick path if he wants an NBA career. Not many guys are able to become passable defenders like Reddick did. Grayson has the athleticism to get there if his brain is up to the task. I'd think with 4 years of college he would have learned to play D already. Some guys you just can't teach.
no one is really riding a high, he clearly has been building up to this point. you clearly haven't been watching him since he came back from his ankle sprain much less this last game. his defense is leaps and bounds better then early season and he's become easily average at that end. and being a playmaker is one of the things he's been better at. against both sacramento and clips last night he was playing against their top guards and getting to the lane/scoring mostly at will w/ some good passes thrown in.
 

phippsj

Well-Known Member
I didn't see his last game, so I'm probably not riding the high you guys are. But from what I've seen, he's a horrific defender. He is a poor playmaker. He's turnover prone. His shot is iffy. He is a pretty decent penetrator. Can finish at the rim pretty well.

Most of all the Jazz seem to just die when he is on the floor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his +/- was lowest on the Jazz and pretty bad league wide for players with his minutes.

He will have to take the JJ Reddick path if he wants an NBA career. Not many guys are able to become passable defenders like Reddick did. Grayson has the athleticism to get there if his brain is up to the task. I'd think with 4 years of college he would have learned to play D already. Some guys you just can't teach.
Recommend you watch a game. He’s working hard on defense, shot looks good. Very happy with what I’ve seen the last few weeks now that he’s had a chance to get some run time. I think you analysis is off quite a bit.
 

JazzyFresh

Well-Known Member
I think his defense had been better than his offense myself. Sure he's still making mistakes but his effort, understanding, and self control have improved tenfold.
 

JFFR

Well-Known Member
For me, watching Grayson Allen felt a lot like watching Morris Almond. It just seemed like there was a lack of confidence when he was out on the floor and he didn't belong.

It doesn't feel like that anymore. His shot looks confident and now I actually believe he will hit an open 3. If a big gets switched on him, he has the confidence to get a good shot. He can draw fouls. But he still made quite a few rookie mistakes.

I had given up on him, but now I think he might contribute some day.
 

Jazz4ever

Well-Known Member
I didn't see his last game, so I'm probably not riding the high you guys are. But from what I've seen, he's a horrific defender. He is a poor playmaker. He's turnover prone. His shot is iffy. He is a pretty decent penetrator. Can finish at the rim pretty well.

Most of all the Jazz seem to just die when he is on the floor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if his +/- was lowest on the Jazz and pretty bad league wide for players with his minutes.

He will have to take the JJ Reddick path if he wants an NBA career. Not many guys are able to become passable defenders like Reddick did. Grayson has the athleticism to get there if his brain is up to the task. I'd think with 4 years of college he would have learned to play D already. Some guys you just can't teach.
His game isn't really like Redick's. Grayson drives a lot more, with mixed results so far. Redick has one trick, shooting well coming off screens which makes up 83% of his field goal attempts. Grayson is a combo guard. Redick is a 100% pure SG.
 

jazzETX

Well-Known Member
yea redick is a bad comparison. i've said it since his sophomore season, but his game is like ginobili except he could end up being a better shooter/athlete than ginobili.
 

latin jazz

Well-Known Member
I think his defense had been better than his offense myself. Sure he's still making mistakes but his effort, understanding, and self control have improved tenfold.
D>O? Tenfold? Sure, his defense has improved and he looks more confident overall, but I wouldn't make those statements
 

Jazz Spazz

Inconceivable
Staff member
yea redick is a bad comparison. i've said it since his sophomore season, but his game is like ginobili except he could end up being a better shooter/athlete than ginobili.
I don't think Ginobili is a good comparison, he's more like the opportunity cost of not buying those 1k shares of Google stock in 2004 when offered. I'd compare him to the unrealized potential of Dante Exum, or the meteoric bust value associated with Adam Morrison. I'd probably compare him to Elvis or the Beatles before Ginobili tbh.
 

jazzETX

Well-Known Member
Mmm, so Redick is a bad comp but a more athletic/better shooter Manu (who is a Hall of Famer) a good one? A bit optimistic I would say :D
why do people always respond like that when it comes to comparisons? did i say he will have a hall of fame career? no. does he compare stylistically to ginobili? yes.
 

jazzfan1971

Well-Known Member
I was only comparing him to Reddick because Reddick was a bad defender when he came into the league and worked hard on his defense until he was decent.

I don't know what the hell you folks are smoking with Grayson, but he was horrible this season. Just look at his per/36 numbers. like 2 assists, 2 rebounds, a half a steal and half a block. And more turnovers than assists. And shooting 37% (or something, working from memory)

HE WAS TERRIBLE. Objectively terrible.

If you want to cherry pick a couple of games, be my guest, but the season data is in and it is miserable.
 

jazzETX

Well-Known Member
you're cherry picking data off very small sample sizes when he wasn't playing save for spot garbage minutes here and there. objectively, when he's got better minutes, his numbers weren't jaw-dropping but clearly better. regardless of that and most importantly, the eye test shows that he has clearly made great strides on both sides of the ball. all we are saying is that there is plenty to work with and be hopeful for in terms of improvement in comparing where he is now rather than where he was at the beginning of the season. you clearly haven't watched games regularly and are only looking at boxscores and advanced analytics which are useless when using them on severely small sample sizes. your analysis is way way off given how's he's looked and improved beyond just these last few games.
 
Top