Gun Control

[Gameface]

I already said how naive my gun understanding is. Surely if I was enacting any sort of plan I would take a closer look and have all the information, like what you're providing, in front of me and cognizant in my mind. So don't try and snowball me.

I'm not trying to snowball you. I'm providing information. I feel like we're on the verge of new and improved gun regulations that are based on Myths, half-truths and outright lies. I'd like to do my small part to inform the supporters of these new measures of the ineffective, illogical and damaging effects these measures will have.

 

[SaltyDawg]

You're right, there are plenty of irrationally paranoid people.

A fascist uprising is more likely than another mass shooting? I like how you call it a sudden urge, as of it was brought on by absolutely nothing.

A tyrannical government stripping away my rights and freedoms is FAR more likely than me getting killed in a mass shooting.

Substitute "me" for "you" and it's equally true.

 

[Sneakers]

Dude. You. Are. Paranoid.

And yes while the odds of me, or you getting murdered in one of these massacres is statistically low. Replace the pronoun with "loved one" and the odds increase, albeit by very little. Replace "loved one" with "acquaintance" and the odds go up more. Replace acquaintance with "child" and now we're talking bigger odds here. Replace child with "innocent person" and I'd say that yes, definitively, the odds of an innocent person being murdered in a shooting massacre is higher than the US government suddenly trying to take over. This isn't just about protecting my own ***. It's the general principle.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Dude. You. Are. Paranoid.

And yes while the odds of me, or you getting murdered in one of these massacres is statistically low. Replace the pronoun with "loved one" and the odds increase, albeit by very little. Replace "loved one" with "acquaintance" and the odds go up more. Replace acquaintance with "child" and now we're talking bigger odds here. Replace child with "innocent person" and I'd say that yes, definitively, the odds of an innocent person being murdered in a shooting massacre is higher than the US government suddenly trying to take over. This isn't just about protecting my own ***. It's the general principle.

Okay, so then you admit the chances that you, your loved ones, and anyone you've ever met, being shot in a mass shooting, are pretty minimal. Yet you're pushing this draconian regulation to strip people of their rights and freedoms, in order to supposedly reduce the already minimal chance of it happening.

And you have the nerve to say I'm the paranoid one, lol.

The government has been stripping away rights and freedoms for some time now. If you think it's unlikely to happen, while it's happening and been happening for years, you're much worse than paranoid.

One could even make the argument that you're actually part of the problem, since you're here promoting the degradation and stripping of constitutional rights, and somehow acting like it's any of your business what products I keep in my own home.

 

[DutchJazzer]

hahahahaha
OBEEZY is A commie

or much worse hahahahahaha

 

[Sneakers]

Okay, so then you admit the chances that you, your loved ones, and anyone you've ever met, being shot in a mass shooting, are pretty minimal. Yet you're pushing this draconian regulation to strip people of their rights and freedoms, in order to supposedly reduce the already minimal chance of it happening.

And you have the nerve to say I'm the paranoid one, lol.

The government has been stripping away rights and freedoms for some time now. If you think it's unlikely to happen, while it's happening and been happening for years, you're much worse than paranoid.

One could even make the argument that you're actually part of the problem, since you're here promoting the degradation and stripping of constitutional rights, and somehow acting like it's any of your business what products I keep in my own home.

Yes man, and I'm sure I'm not alone in stressing the fact that being more wary of a hostile government take over by the US that has an exactly 0 chance of happening is more paranoid than being wary of another unneeded massacre. But let's move on from that. What are your guns supposed to do against government drones, tanks, missles, etc. anyway? Are you more upset about the idea gun regulation or at the idea of the government limiting what you can do in any capacity? What is this really about?

There's a lot I don't like about the government, but I refuse to buy into these totalitarian nightmare delusions. I understand the need for checks and balances outside of the government system, but where I won't agree is that somehow mass and uninhibited gun ownership is the only way to do this.

I also don't get is where you got this idea that you're allowed to do whatever you want regardless of how it impacts other people. So is it none of my business if you're keeping anthrax in your home? Or if you decide to purchase a wrecking-ball without any idea how to use one? Like it or not you're in a social contract with everyone else in society. It's like the person who bitches because they get fined for letting their yard grow out of control, like it or not the look of your yard affects other persons' property value. I get it, you're a strict libertarian, but there's rules to how this thing operates.

I don't give a **** if you have a handgun. I don't care if you have a hunting rifle, a shotgun or a mother****ing crossbow. I do care if you didn't have to get thoroughly checked out before you were allowed to own those things, and if you have weapons with more capability then you'd ever hope of utilizing for any conceivable practical purpose. And this paranoid attitude that is rearing its ugly head more and more over the course of this debate has me concerned as well.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Yes man, and I'm sure I'm not alone in stressing the fact that being more wary of a hostile government take over by the US that has an exactly 0 chance of happening is more paranoid than being wary of another unneeded massacre. But let's move on from that. What are your guns supposed to do against government drones, tanks, missles, etc. anyway? Are you more upset about the idea gun regulation or at the idea of the government limiting what you can do in any capacity? What is this really about?

There's a lot I don't like about the government, but I refuse to buy into these totalitarian nightmare delusions. I understand the need for checks and balances outside of the government system, but where I won't agree is that somehow mass and uninhibited gun ownership is the only way to do this.

I also don't get is where you got this idea that you're allowed to do whatever you want regardless of how it impacts other people. So is it none of my business if you're keeping anthrax in your home? Or if you decide to purchase a wrecking-ball without any idea how to use one? Like it or not you're in a social contract with everyone else in society. It's like the person who bitches because they get fined for letting their yard grow out of control, like it or not the look of your yard affects other persons' property value. I get it, you're a strict libertarian, but there's rules to how this thing operates.

I don't give a **** if you have a handgun. I don't care if you have a hunting rifle, a shotgun or a mother****ing crossbow. I do care if you didn't have to get thoroughly checked out before you were allowed to own those things, and if you have weapons with more capability then you'd ever hope of utilizing for any conceivable practical purpose. And this paranoid attitude that is rearing its ugly head more and more over the course of this debate has me concerned as well.

You may think there is a 0 percent chance of this country becoming a police state, and there are probably plenty of people who agree with you, I don't argue against that. But trust me, there are plenty of people who share my views on this as well. And we're not all the right wing nut jobs that you apparently think we are. Funny, I was being called a liberal political hack on this site as recently as a few weeks ago.

Yes, I think I should be allowed to buy drones, tanks, etc, if the police have them. As long as the police have them, I should be able to get them too. If the police aren't allowed to have them, then that's another story. But if the police have them, then I should absolutely be able to buy them too.

You don't get why I think I should be able to do whatever I want as long as I'm not hurting anyone else? Um, should I welcome you to America? Lol, this is the land of the free, that's why I think we should be free.

Yes, I absolutely should be able to purchase a wrecking ball, whether I know how to use it or not. If I damage your property with it, then I should obviously be liable for that. If I don't damage your property with it, then it's none of your business whether I own a wrecking ball or not.

I'm torn on the lawn thing. Yes, I think I should be allowed to let my yard get as ugly as I want. However, if it causes my neighbor's property value to go down then I should probably be liable for that. Or maybe not, maybe they should be free to move away from me if they don't like it. I don't know about that one. It's not an issue in my neighborhood though, it's kind of a contest to have the nicest yard, so I haven't really thought about that too much.

The yard thing is different than what I have hidden in my house, though. You can see my yard from my neighbor's house, you can't see the inside of my safe. What I have in that safe is none of your business. If I cause some harm to you with whatever I had in that safe, THEN it becomes your business.

This is America, you can't seriously be attempting to punish me for a crime that will probably never be committed. And make no mistake, telling me I can no longer buy certain things that I like absolutely is a punishment.

The capability of my weapons is none of your business. If I do something wrong with one of those weapons, then you might have a reason to restrict what weapons I can have. But until then, what I do, and what I own, is none of your business. That's not me being paranoid. Paranoid is you telling me that it's okay for you to be all up in my business, restricting my rights, in order to prevent a crime that even you admit is extremely unlikely to ever be committed by or against anyone that either of us will ever meet.

 

[Stoked]

No, America suddenly becoming a Naziesque fascist state is not a very real possibility. That's called paranoia

Have fun having your private cell phone conversations, emails and all other electronic forms of communication monitored without a court order.
Have fun talking to police in case you buy to much fertilizer.
Have fun being hit with a criminal record if you are a CC permit holder and take your gun to the wrong state.
Have fun being an immigrant and being held indefinately.
State and Federal police can now search a home or business without an order or even the owners knowledge that they are searching under certain conditions.
Have fun having your financial records being searched thru without your knowledge or consent.

All allowable under the law now and in clear violation of our rights. You want to talk about paranoid? Fine, but pull your damn head out of the sand first.

No, I do not think that they will ban guns and when I wake up tomorrow I will see Brown Shirts in my town telling people when they can move about, how much food they can buy and who they can talk to. However I do think that you will continue to see a systematic and gradual reducing of our rights until the people stop it. We cans top it thru voting and opposing uncosntitutional measures thru the courts and having them repealed.

 

[One Brow]

So should the police stop carrying guns then, like England? Good luck passing that.

Or are you saying we should have a class based society where a few elites have all the guns? And we can be sure that nobody will ever steal them...

I think you can have cycles of escalation and cycles of de-escalation. Stripping US police, today, of guns would be foolish. Over a few decades, we might reach the point where the guns weren't needed.

 

[One Brow]

More mass shooting are with a rifle but the number of dead from handguns far exceeds the number of dead from the few mass shootings every year.

I agree. However, based on constitutional law, even if I agreed there should be no personal guns (and I don't think that's currently feasible even without the SCOTUS ruling), making personal weapons illegal will not happen. So, I'd rather look at areas where a difference, however small, can be made.

 

[One Brow]

I have seen that info in a few articles about the shooting.

I assumed the factual content was correct. I was just curious if that thought process had been confirmed by the shooter, that he chose a theater for that reason.

 

[One Brow]

True, they can.

My apologies for being unclear. I wasn't talking about the seriousness of the offence. I meant that an arrest is meaningless in terms of assessing whether a person is a threat. You can be arrested on almost no evidence at all. Convictions would be different.

 

[Stoked]

I assumed the factual content was correct. I was just curious if that thought process had been confirmed by the shooter, that he chose a theater for that reason.

To be honest, I do not remmeber.

 

[Stoked]

My apologies for being unclear. I wasn't talking about the seriousness of the offence. I meant that an arrest is meaningless in terms of assessing whether a person is a threat. You can be arrested on almost no evidence at all. Convictions would be different.

Yes convictions should be the key element. If a conviction comes up it is not an immediate approval or denail but requies a closer look. Same with mental helth records.

I think that is fair.

 

[Stoked]

There are already officials in Texas, Oregon and Idaho that are saying they will not enforce any new federal laws or bans in relation to guns.

What are your opinions on that? (general question for who ever wants to reply)

 

[DutchJazzer]

Have fun having your private cell phone conversations, emails and all other electronic forms of communication monitored without a court order.
Have fun talking to police in case you buy to much fertilizer.
Have fun being hit with a criminal record if you are a CC permit holder and take your gun to the wrong state.
Have fun being an immigrant and being held indefinately.
State and Federal police can now search a home or business without an order or even the owners knowledge that they are searching under certain conditions.
Have fun having your financial records being searched thru without your knowledge or consent.

All allowable under the law now and in clear violation of our rights. You want to talk about paranoid? Fine, but pull your damn head out of the sand first.

No, I do not think that they will ban guns and when I wake up tomorrow I will see Brown Shirts in my town telling people when they can move about, how much food they can buy and who they can talk to. However I do think that you will continue to see a systematic and gradual reducing of our rights until the people stop it. We cans top it thru voting and opposing uncosntitutional measures thru the courts and having them repealed.

AGREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!.
mods: this is not a thread this is just me agreeing to his post

 

[Qman]

There are already officials in Texas, Oregon and Idaho that are saying they will not enforce any new federal laws or bans in relation to guns.

What are your opinions on that? (general question for who ever wants to reply)

I have heard about a sheriff in Arizona that is threatening to deputize the entire county. If everyone is law enforcement, then everyone is allowed to have firearms.

 

[fishonjazz]

There are already officials in Texas, Oregon and Idaho that are saying they will not enforce any new federal laws or bans in relation to guns.

What are your opinions on that? (general question for who ever wants to reply)

Im not surprised... this is why its annoying that all the gun lovers are freaking out.
This is why i keep telling my friends and family members who are freaking out to calm down.... most likely either nothing will change or there will be very minor changes that affect 0.5 percent of the population.

No ones guns will be taken away, i promise you all.

 

[Stoked]

Im not surprised... this is why its annoying that all the gun lovers are freaking out.
This is why i keep telling my friends and family members who are freaking out to calm down.... most likely either nothing will change or there will be very minor changes that affect 0.5 percent of the population.

No ones guns will be taken away, i promise you all.

I do not anyone here is thinking they will be. However that does not change the fact that our rights may be infringed on in other ways.

 

[Hartsock]

1. Have fun having your private cell phone conversations, emails and all other electronic forms of communication monitored without a court order.
2. Have fun talking to police in case you buy to much fertilizer.
3. Have fun being hit with a criminal record if you are a CC permit holder and take your gun to the wrong state.
4. Have fun being an immigrant and being held indefinately.
5. State and Federal police can now search a home or business without an order or even the owners knowledge that they are searching under certain conditions.
6. Have fun having your financial records being searched thru without your knowledge or consent.

All allowable under the law now and in clear violation of our rights. You want to talk about paranoid? Fine, but pull your damn head out of the sand first.

No, I do not think that they will ban guns and when I wake up tomorrow I will see Brown Shirts in my town telling people when they can move about, how much food they can buy and who they can talk to. However I do think that you will continue to see a systematic and gradual reducing of our rights until the people stop it. We cans top it thru voting and opposing uncosntitutional measures thru the courts and having them repealed.

1. they would be really bored and I have nothing to hide
2. I'm fine with this, I mean how much fertilizer do you really need?
3. That would be uncool
4. Not cool either
5. They wouldnt search my home because I have nothing to hide and do nothing fishy
6. They would just laugh at how poor I am, and I also have nothing to hide

I think people are generally worried about something that will never ever affect them. Like 1, 2, 5, 6 .... Maybe I'm just naive but these things wont effect me so I wont stress over them.