Hayward & Jazz - not close to agreement (Hayward leaving 4/40 on the table)

[fufo]

When is the last time for the extension? Oct 31, but when? 1PM Eastern?

 

[Siro]

When is the last time for the extension? Oct 31, but when? 1PM Eastern?

Midnight ET.

 

[The Midnight]

If Hayward doesn't get the extension and is forced to play out this year I can see the following happening:

- FO directing Ty to make Hayward less of a focal point offensively

- Less reliant on Hayward to be "the man" and more emphasis on developing Favors and Kanter (i.e., have the offense run through them a bit more).

- Burke will handle the ball more and making more assisting duty

- All this would make Hayward basically a spot-up shooter


==================================


All this with a view of:

- Driving the offer price for Hayward down next year

- Developing Burke, Favors and Kanter more

- Help with the tank

Also - if "tanking" is one of Lindsey's main priorities this year (and I think it is, judging by letting go of DeMare), then to me there is less of an incentive for him to extend Hayward to any amount that is beyond what he thinks Hayward deserves. Because by locking him up for MAX - this signals that we are ready to contend (and we're no where near ready IMO).

 

[GVC]

If I were Hayward I would sign for exactly the amount Favors got just to make it fair and to not create any animosity between the 2 future leaders of the team.

Yikes.

 

[Edgewriter]

If Hayward doesn't get the extension and is forced to play out this year I can see the following happening:

- FO directing Ty to make Hayward less of a focal point offensively

- Less reliant on Hayward to be "the man" and more emphasis on developing Favors and Kanter (i.e., have the offense run through them a bit more).

- Burke will handle the ball more and making more assisting duty

- All this would make Hayward basically a spot-up shooter


==================================


All this with a view of:

- Driving the offer price for Hayward down next year

- Developing Burke, Favors and Kanter more

- Help with the tank

Also - if "tanking" is one of Lindsey's main priorities this year (and I think it is, judging by letting go of DeMare), then to me there is less of an incentive for him to extend Hayward to any amount that is beyond what he thinks Hayward deserves. Because by locking him up for MAX - this signals that we are ready to contend (and we're no where near ready IMO).

Some people think our front office is full of A$$holes. We're not the Kings.

 

[The Midnight]

Some people think our front office is full of A$$holes. We're not the Kings.

There is always a tension between the player and the franchise when it comes to contract discussion.

As the GM you have to do what's best for the franchise IMO.

 

[Flc]

If Hayward doesn't get the extension and is forced to play out this year I can see the following happening:

- FO directing Ty to make Hayward less of a focal point offensively

- Less reliant on Hayward to be "the man" and more emphasis on developing Favors and Kanter (i.e., have the offense run through them a bit more).

- Burke will handle the ball more and making more assisting duty

- All this would make Hayward basically a spot-up shooter


==================================


All this with a view of:

- Driving the offer price for Hayward down next year

- Developing Burke, Favors and Kanter more

- Help with the tank

Also - if "tanking" is one of Lindsey's main priorities this year (and I think it is, judging by letting go of DeMare), then to me there is less of an incentive for him to extend Hayward to any amount that is beyond what he thinks Hayward deserves. Because by locking him up for MAX - this signals that we are ready to contend (and we're no where near ready IMO).

What? No. That isn't what is happening or what's going to happen at all.

Hayward and his agent think he's a Paul George caliber player - e.g. a #1/#2 option on a potential championship team.
The Jazz don't think that. They think he's a #3 option on a championship team.

And that's why a deal hasn't been done yet. Either one of them budges, they compromise, or they play out the season and let Hayward test the market - if Hayward develops and explodes this year, to the point where he COULD be a #1 option, then other teams will offer him the max, and the Jazz can match.

If he doesn't develop and is clearly a #3 option, then most likely no other team offers him more than $11/year, and the Jazz match.

If he doesn't develop and some team decides to blow their load on him - something I don't see happening given the new CBA - then the Jazz can always let him walk, which they might do if they have determined that they can get a more productive SF/SG through Free Agency or the draft, which could very well happen.

They aren't going to drive down Hayward's value - if Hayward doesn't bite at a #3 option contract of about 10-11 mil/year, then they'll use this year to determine his ACTUAL value. Lindsey and KOC would LOVE it if Hayward produced the numbers and efficiency this year to be a #1 option, and they'd gladly pay him for it - they just haven't seen it yet.

 

[b_line]

What? No. That isn't what is happening or what's going to happen at all.

Hayward and his agent think he's a Paul George caliber player - e.g. a #1/#2 option on a potential championship team.
The Jazz don't think that. They think he's a #3 option on a championship team.

And that's why a deal hasn't been done yet. Either one of them budges, they compromise, or they play out the season and let Hayward test the market - if Hayward develops and explodes this year, to the point where he COULD be a #1 option, then other teams will offer him the max, and the Jazz can match.

If he doesn't develop and is clearly a #3 option, then most likely no other team offers him more than $11/year, and the Jazz match.

If he doesn't develop and some team decides to blow their load on him - something I don't see happening given the new CBA - then the Jazz can always let him walk, which they might do if they have determined that they can get a more productive SF/SG through Free Agency or the draft, which could very well happen.

They aren't going to drive down Hayward's value - if Hayward doesn't bite at a #3 option contract of about 10-11 mil/year, then they'll use this year to determine his ACTUAL value. Lindsey and KOC would LOVE it if Hayward produced the numbers and efficiency this year to be a #1 option, and they'd gladly pay him for it - they just haven't seen it yet.

great post.

 

[udflyer]

If Hayward doesn't get the extension and is forced to play out this year I can see the following happening:

- FO directing Ty to make Hayward less of a focal point offensively

- Less reliant on Hayward to be "the man" and more emphasis on developing Favors and Kanter (i.e., have the offense run through them a bit more).

- Burke will handle the ball more and making more assisting duty

- All this would make Hayward basically a spot-up shooter


==================================


All this with a view of:

- Driving the offer price for Hayward down next year

- Developing Burke, Favors and Kanter more

- Help with the tank

Also - if "tanking" is one of Lindsey's main priorities this year (and I think it is, judging by letting go of DeMare), then to me there is less of an incentive for him to extend Hayward to any amount that is beyond what he thinks Hayward deserves. Because by locking him up for MAX - this signals that we are ready to contend (and we're no where near ready IMO).

Agree with this.

Plus, likelihood of a trade goes way up.

 

[mellow]

I like the jazz.

 

[franklin]

I disagree with the notion that Gordon's ceiling is a fourth option. He can be a GOOD third option on a GOOD/CONTENDING team. I'd be just fine with him at 4/40...too bad that doesn't appear to jive with his camp.

I mean that I would not pay him as a dominant third at this point, but you seem to be making the same point below. I'm in the camp that thinks players can do it in practice before the court, and Hayward has had all the chance to prove/earn it in both venues.

What do you mean exactly (I've never found "option" number to be terribly descriptive of what role a player fills)? To me, ideally you have 1 or 2 guys on the court at all times who can play on-ball effectively. That is, if you have 3 effective on-ball players, you don't really need any more (only one ball on the court, diminishing returns, etc., etc...), and should focus on acquiring players who complement those players. Hayward is not one of these on-ball offensive hubs, and I think it's fairly unlikely he turns himself into one. With that said, he's already a terrific off-ball scorer, and could very easily be the #3 scorer on a contender. Think Memo without the defensive and transition warts. I think you can make an argument for him being worth about $10mm per year (this depends on your belief about the value of do-it-all off-ball players relative to players who fill high value roles- on-ball scorer/creator, rim protector, perimeter stopper). I agree that paying him more than that would likely be a mistake.

That's convincing. I've said ad nauseum that I want him used off ball primarily since it suits him best and the FO can find out if he can play in that Reggie catch and shoot role as well as cutting and driving off scramble. (Yeah yeah bring on teh lolz for me calling Reggie/Ray/Jet/Peja/Korver a third option because of the specific role) Not that Hayward is a pure shooter in that class but he is a hybrid with that quality at a respectable level. Or potential to be.

 

[green]

Franklin is smart.

If Utah pays him over 10...he will be the next AK/Ostertag. Good player, but overpaid and hurting the Jazz more than he is helping them.