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Hayward to the Suns?

Continue to progress? I wasn't aware that he was progressing this season. Doesn't look like it to me.

Maybe because we are not that much into the season or may be because you forgot some of his good games. Give the guy some slack.
 
Maybe because we are not that much into the season or may be because you forgot some of his good games. Give the guy some slack.

Besides that he hasn't played with a decent point guard yet. I'm going to hold my breath a little longer, but not forever.
 
Hayward is a Hornacek/Dan Majerle type player. I can see why the Suns would like him. But max him? Not a good idea.
 
Hayward has more all-around skills than Paul with greater upside. I think he will be the better player if he continues to progress.
So how long should we wait to see this so call upside? 50 games into this season, next season, or just take a chance and match any offer and cross our fingers he becomes Larry Bird in the next 4 seasons?
 
Margo hit the nail on the head which says - "overpay" by definition is wrong. Only way a team would "overpay" is if money is no object (don't care about luxury tax, etc) We are not in that league. (Does Brooklyn care that Joe Johnson is overpaid? I don't think so.)

the other equatiion is that the "David Locke team salary info" he posted this summer, (which i don't have with me) indicated the financial rule is ~$40-45M for your stars. The remaining space is for the role players. If the Jazz could get 4 guys for $11-12 each then this is possible, however, the make up is very typically 2 or 3 players who make up the $45M. The equation also doesn't show that it is possible to have 4, $12M-quality guys who are good enough. To win you have to have $15-17+ guys.

So I think the Jazz are banking on (hoping) that any two of the core 5 turnout $12M-worthy and then draft a $17M-worthy player (and pay him ~$7m for the first 4 years) So it appears/rumored Hayward asked for >$12M pre-Oct31. (OR the Jazz think he's not worth $12.) The Jazz would also like 2-3 of the core 5 to be worthy of trading up in the draft and landing cheaper (for 4 years), but 'better than role players' like the Spurs have done.

Short aside: Watching the Knicks Pacers game last night illustrated that Paul George (someone i'm biased against becuase he played at Fresno and looked like crap (for NBA potential) when i saw him against the USU Aggies) IS WORTH $17M - He is true franchise player. Collins said he showing why he's "top 10 player." I think he could be grouped top 5ish... In a VERY hard fought, defensive, physical, playoff-like game, he won the game like the top 5 players do.

So in summary - Hayward (and the other core3) are not franchise players and never will be. I don't think anyone disputes that. TB3 has never played so i can't say (doubt it... but Paul George proved me wrong and there are a few others.) Hayward has the potential to be "The sidekick." His play right now appears to me that he is coached to go out all guns a blazin' to see what his potential can be, and this evaluation/audition is a higher priority than winning or any other metric right now(running the offense, team defense, etc.)
 
I'll correct my own post above - "ennie meanie thinks Hayward will be a franchise player" i'm not sure anyone else thinks so. Hayward could be really, really good NBA player. But there are so few legit franchise players. Theare the 10ish time nba alstars. This will never be hayward. In someone's 4th year, that capability is evident or not. in this case - "or not." I love hayward's game. But as a business man - the perspective we are taking in our armchairs - is that it is not even in the realm for me to bet any 'overpay' money or 'pay on potential' that he will become that.
 
Only way a team would "overpay" is if money is no object (don't care about luxury tax, etc) We are not in that league. (Does Brooklyn care that Joe Johnson is overpaid? I don't think so.)

Brooklyn is in its own category of financial mismanagement and as such is the exception that proves the rule. They also aren't good, so there's that.
 
Brooklyn is in its own category of financial mismanagement and as such is the exception that proves the rule. They also aren't good, so there's that.

Agree - I'd probably only bet on LAL or Boston as overpayers who will be succesful at it as a rule. Not MAVs, Not BKN...
 
Look, Hayward had a horrible shooting night last game. But overall I see progress. He seems a lot more confident and he has shown the ability not only to create his own shot but also shots for others. He had 11 assists last night. He's a solid defender and good ball handler and can go to the hole with authority. The potential is there, but I never said Max -- All-Star, yes.
 
So how long should we wait to see this so call upside? 50 games into this season, next season, or just take a chance and match any offer and cross our fingers he becomes Larry Bird in the next 4 seasons?

He is 23 years old bruh, and playing a major role for the first time in his career on a disaster of a team
 
Look, Hayward had a horrible shooting night last game. But overall I see progress. He seems a lot more confident and he has shown the ability not only to create his own shot but also shots for others. He had 11 assists last night. He's a solid defender and good ball handler and can go to the hole with authority. The potential is there, but I never said Max -- All-Star, yes.

I agree that Hayward could be an all-star some day if the Jazz are contenders however you said that he was better than Paul George who is a legitimate franchise player. No one is saying Hayward isn't a very good player but he is not consistent enough to be consider elite and he is not worth $12 million a year.
 
Gordon does have a unique
skill set. Brings his shooting percentage above 45 percent and he may just be worth the max. Not that far fetched.
 
I am constantly shaking my head at NBA executives that go all gaga over some free agents and then the next year they are doing everything they can to try to unload these players that they were so determined to land.

Hedo Turkoglu
Rudy Gay
Gerald Wallace
Nene
Ariza.
 
Hayward is an interesting player. He is good enough to POSSIBLY get the max. I honestly believe if he gets the max. His team will never win a title.
 
Paying Hayward the max would also have a toxic effect on all future in-house contract negotiations. How many more nice players would consequently demand that same amount of money AND have a point?
 
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