Holy piss, the Apollo moon missions were fake?!


babe

Well-Known Member
No, babe, I did realize that you yourself might be joking. I was not certain, but considered it a possibility. I mean, I grant, what you wrote about selling was somewhat comical.

Anyway..

It’s just that I also thought you were going to bluff your way through meteoritics, and I chuckled at that. There was no need to do that. You could have simply admitted it’s not a subject you are that familiar with.

Every meteorite collector that I know takes it upon themselves to make a real effort to take a deep dive into the science itself. True, some collectors just like to focus on famous, historic falls. And some just specialize in one of the major classes, like nickel iron meteorites, the type most laymen visualize when they think of meteorites.

But, most of us, if we really want to best appreciate what we collect, eventually have to get up to speed on the chemistry, the petrology, and basically what the science can tell us about the early formation of the solar system. With the exception of the planetary meteorites, such as Martian samples, almost all other meteorites will represent the earliest matter that condensed out of the solar nebula. Meaning, other than planetary specimens originating from planetary bodies large enough to have internal engines, and therefore experience geological processing and the creation of younger rocks, most other meteorite types will originate from asteroidal bodies that are 4.5-4.6 billion years old. Meteorites are the oldest matter than any of us can hold in our hands. And some meteorites display inclusions that originated from a star that went nova even before our solar system existed. Pretty exciting to hold such things in one’s hand.

But, ya gotta dive into the science to really develop a knowledge of, and appreciation for, what you own when you collect space rocks. Simply put, the science is where all the excitement, and all the fun, is.

Again, focusing on learning the science, many collectors enjoy focusing on the carbonaceous chondrites class(the CC class) of meteorites. Because they are rich in carbon compounds and amino acids, and may, in the early phases of planetary formation, have been responsible for seeding the building blocks of life onto the early Earth. And such a collector will but naturally dive deeply into the science of those CC meteorites. There is no way around it if one wants to enhance appreciation for what one is collecting.

One of the things that is somewhat unique to meteorite study and collection is that there is a symbiotic relationship among meteorite hunters, collectors, and scientists. This is a bit unusual, I believe, in that because I also collect fossils and artifacts, I am familiar with the fact that many scientists in the disciplines of paleontology and archaeology are less enthusiastic about the presence of amateurs and the existence of collector markets. That is simply not the case among planetary geologists or meteoriticists.

Which brings me to that symbiotic relationship. Meteorite hunters, who also, but not all, tend to be collectors as well, depend on a market. But the collector market values classified meteorites far more than unclassified meteorites. And only scientific labs recognized and approved by the Meteoritical Society can classify meteorites and get them published in the Meteoritical Bulletin. So, the hunter, or anybody who finds a new find or recovers a new fall, submits a sample to an approved lab. The rarer the classification, the more value the new fall or find will have for a collector. And, this part is key to the symbiosis I’m talking about: the lab must receive a percentage of the new fall or find. In this way, science benefits by receiving new specimens to study, and is therefore able to add to our body of knowledge. The hunter benefits because classifieds are worth more, and, if a rare class, the value will be higher. And collectors benefit by being able to add newly classified meteorites to their collections. Hunters, collectors, and science all benefit by this symbiotic relationship at the very heart of meteorite collecting. Science has Antarctica to itself, a cold desert that for reasons I won’t go into, accumulates meteorites over time. Only scientists can collect there.

But, in places like the hot deserts of Morocco and Algeria, a huge number of meteorites have been, and still are being, recovered. Not by scientists. By Bedouins and by professional hunters. The Meteoritical Society labels all these specimens Northwest Africa, with a number assigned to them. These have been flooding the market since about the 1990’s. A boon to everyone. Again, submit to a scientific lab, and the lab must be given a percentage of the new find. So the science of meteoritics benefits with new finds. The hunter/dealer gets his classification. The collector gets a chance to add a new find, perhaps a rare lunar or Martian, to his/her collections. Symbiosis. No reason for science to resent collectors or the existence of a meteorite market.

So, what I am getting at is, as I stated, I don’t know any serious collector, including myself, who does not eagerly embrace the science itself, simply to better appreciate what they own. And amateurs can also make significant contributions of their own, to the science itself. For example, I have a close friend who is a pharmacist. He specializes in collecting carbonaceous chondrites, a type of stony meteorite. His pharmacy background provides him a strong knowledge of chemistry, one of my biggest weaknesses. I’m OK with the petrology of meteorites, but weak on the chemistry. It doesn’t come easy, but I do my best. But, he has studied the chemistry of carbonaceous chondrites so thoroughly, that he has published his studies in scientific journals. He became a noted authority on that class of stone meteorite.

So, you see, when I said to you “be careful who you speak gibberish to”, it was because, while I am certainly not a planetary geologist, or meteoriticist, I recognized that you were going to try winging your way through that science. There’s no need of that. All I tried to do, in the first place, was use what knowledge I have gained, to point out how impossible it really is to explain where all of NASA’s moon rocks came from if the Apollo missions never really took place.

Anyway, this stone, probably unattractive to most eyes, was one of the center pieces of my personal collection. I sold it recently to a friend. It’s the Allende meteorite, having fallen in Allende, Mexico, in 1969. Interestingly, the labs set up to study the original Apollo moon rocks used this large fall as a test run on their new equipment since it fell shortly before the first mission. It’s a CC, a carbonaceous chondrite, specifically a CV3 meteorite. See the white inclusions? Those are called CAI’s: Calcium Aluminum Inclusions. They originated in a distant star that went nova, and became incorporated into the original matter that condensed out of the solar nebula that became our solar system.

Space rocks like this inspire the imagination, but that imagination emerges out of knowing the science to the best of one’s ability. And every collector I know digs the science, to better understand and appreciate their specimens.

View attachment 10458
Well, since the subject was the lunar missions to begin with, it’s appropriate to add this photo. This is a 1.5 gm slice of Northwest Africa 11266(NWA 11266), a lunar regolith breccia. The 11,266th meteorite from Northwest Africa to be recognized by the Meteoritical Society, to give you some idea at how much the market has been impacted by the meteorite goldmine that are the hot deserts of NW Africa. Of course, only a small number have been lunar. When lunar meteorites first hit the market, they sold for thousands of dollars per gram. Now, some, such as this one, can be had for under $100 per gram.
View attachment 10459
This is the kind of reply I live for.
 
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Red

Well-Known Member
Yeah 100 bucks per gram is pretty cheap round here...
When the Peekskill meteorite crashed through the trunk of a car, a friend of mine eventually ended up with the car, and sent it on a world tour. I forget the purchase price for that car, but it was way more than the $400 the woman originally payed for it.


Forget the car. Just the original title and tail light: “In 2012, the Peekskill Meteorite Car's original title and a broken rear taillight bulb alone sold at auction in New York City in excess of $5,000. Today specimens of the meteorite itself sell for in excess of $150/gram — nearly 4x its weight in gold.
 

Red

Well-Known Member
For some, meteorite dealing has been very financially rewarding, and some risks...


Since I was talking about carbonaceous chondrites and their rare composition, it’s somewhat of a coincidence that a very recent British fall has the meteorite collecting world, and meteorite scientists, beside themselves with excitement:

 

babe

Well-Known Member
I found a star fragment in hyrule. Watched it fall out of the sky and hunted it down and everything. Sold it for 300 rupees. I thought that was a good deal.

Log is probably fishing this story out of his bathroom "bowl", ya know, some overworked moms just don't pay that much attention and their kids become, at one time or another, "fishermen" who love to smear the fudge all over the bathroom. This just doesn't really seem to me to be the Log we know.

And before rushing to any judgment, it's actually true that almost all meteorites are indeed "star fragments".

The chemistry of the universe begins with hydrogen. It takes stars to generate higher elements. Maybe an exception with Beryllium and Boron and Lithium which perhaps can be generated from high energy collisions of protons or light nuclei in the upper atmospheres of planets with magnetic fields. Not an expert here, just prattling common education or perhaps miseducation.

Solar systems including rocky planets and gas giants are generally thought to be the consequence of some destabilizing event inside a star where stuff explodes out somehow.

So the question here is really did Log actually go to India (hyrule?) and actually find something outta this world.
 

Gameface

IT'S TIME TO GET YOUR GAMEFACE ON!
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
Log is probably fishing this story out of his bathroom "bowl", ya know, some overworked moms just don't pay that much attention and their kids become, at one time or another, "fishermen" who love to smear the fudge all over the bathroom. This just doesn't really seem to me to be the Log we know.

And before rushing to any judgment, it's actually true that almost all meteorites are indeed "star fragments".

The chemistry of the universe begins with hydrogen. It takes stars to generate higher elements. Maybe an exception with Beryllium and Boron and Lithium which perhaps can be generated from high energy collisions of protons or light nuclei in the upper atmospheres of planets with magnetic fields. Not an expert here, just prattling common education or perhaps miseducation.

Solar systems including rocky planets and gas giants are generally thought to be the consequence of some destabilizing event inside a star where stuff explodes out somehow.

So the question here is really did Log actually go to India (hyrule?) and actually find something outta this world.
I think you pretty much nailed it as far as what Log most likely did. I hope @Red learned something about meteorites from this post.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
Log is probably fishing this story out of his bathroom "bowl", ya know, some overworked moms just don't pay that much attention and their kids become, at one time or another, "fishermen" who love to smear the fudge all over the bathroom. This just doesn't really seem to me to be the Log we know.

And before rushing to any judgment, it's actually true that almost all meteorites are indeed "star fragments".

The chemistry of the universe begins with hydrogen. It takes stars to generate higher elements. Maybe an exception with Beryllium and Boron and Lithium which perhaps can be generated from high energy collisions of protons or light nuclei in the upper atmospheres of planets with magnetic fields. Not an expert here, just prattling common education or perhaps miseducation.

Solar systems including rocky planets and gas giants are generally thought to be the consequence of some destabilizing event inside a star where stuff explodes out somehow.

So the question here is really did Log actually go to India (hyrule?) and actually find something outta this world.

So, since I actually have met Log and could describe him fairly well, and since the mother of my daughters has raised actual scholars who do stuff like astonish their teachers and make the Sterling Scholar ranks, who if they do stuff like internet games won't tell mom or dad about it...... I have to admit I'm an ignoramus in the world of fantasy, except my own world of fantasy of course.

At this point, I believe Log fits the description of a a king from the Sand world. He confessed once that his wife has friends of the other kind who actually are intrigued by him. And why wouldn't they be.

In his world he is the only male, perhaps, or a secret yet to be revealed prince. And it's not that much of a stretch from "Ganon" to "Log".. Speculating here, of course, but this is the one that fits the most points of fact I know. Second guess would of course be "Goron", but that's a tribe more or less, and Log is not all that warlike. But he was in Reno, a literal hotspot of lava rock and mountains, and though I didn't see him roll I can attest that if he did curl up in a fetal position, he would roll very decidedly.

And, really, Reno is just the kind of place to find someone outta this world.

We should perhaps enquire as to why he left and dwells in a cave high above the Mojave desert now. Ya know, that cave with the big rock chair on the ridge looking over the desert. The best view of the Sand world. Something outta L' Amour's Lonesome Gods.
 
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Gameface

IT'S TIME TO GET YOUR GAMEFACE ON!
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
So it took the Zelda youtube video to clue you in to what Log was saying when he said he found a star fragment in Hyrule?

Some people have no culture.
 

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