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infection

infection

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The notion that Joe should come off the bench.

And, yes, I know it's popular to say Conley should come off the bench, but it's very simple to have Royce coming off the bench. I know that's not kosher in current JazzFanz theology, though.
 
infection said:
The notion that Joe should come off the bench.

And, yes, I know it's popular to say Conley should come off the bench, but it's very simple to have Royce coming off the bench. I know that's not kosher in current JazzFanz theology, though.
Click to expand...
I love Royce, but he comes off the bench. It's quite simple.

Have Joe play the first and last six minutes of each half unless injury depleted (24 mpg). Every minute he's on the floor should be with Gobert for both of their benefit.

Joe sets the tone for what Jazz basketball is supposed to be.
 
If Quin is truly an analytics guy he can't deny Joe is measurably better with the starters. It's so much better to have a good start. Time to give up the experiment of Joe off the bench. We have enough proof that it isn't working.
 
Will he be this good with another ball dominant player on the wing in place of Royce. I still kind of like Royce starting. I think the adjustment becomes Ingles starts and Conley subs really early for Royce and runs the bench units... maybe. I still think the biggest issue is that when Joe runs pick and roll with the bench guys he runs it with Ed or Green. I think Conley doing the same thing may hurt the bench production but maybe Conley can shoot it better off the dribble and just never pass it to Ed.

Long story short I don’t think it is just him starting or off the bench I think it has to do with how he’s used... which will change either way when Conley is back.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Will he be this good with another ball dominant player on the wing in place of Royce. I still kind of like Royce starting. I think the adjustment becomes Ingles starts and Conley subs really early for Royce and runs the bench units... maybe. I still think the biggest issue is that when Joe runs pick and roll with the bench guys he runs it with Ed or Green. I think Conley doing the same thing may hurt the bench production but maybe Conley can shoot it better off the dribble and just never pass it to Ed.

Long story short I don’t think it is just him starting or off the bench I think it has to do with how he’s used... which will change either way when Conley is back.
Click to expand...
It's on Conley to change, not the rest of the team, frankly. He needs to start getting that or that's where I start fielding calls on him.

I think you are dead-on with that Royce subs in for Conley or Mitchell so that whoever comes out becomes the primary ball-handler in the second unit.

Playing Joe in the main lineup is as much or more about Gobert as it is anything else. Nobody has the chemistry with Gobert that Joe has and it is not even close. Their relationship is the difference between having Joe play well (which takes him from a fringe NBA player to the premier glue guy in the league), and Gobert going from a second-tier center to a first.

Lastly, Joe just sets a tone for excellent basketball decision-making and moving the ball. His passing is contagious. He needs to keep doing that. He needs to start.
 
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NUMBERICA said:
It's on Conley to change, not the rest of the team, frankly. He needs to start getting that or that's where I start taking and fielding calls on him.

I think you are dead-on with that Royce subs in for Conley or Mitchell so that whoever comes out becomes the primary ball-handler in the second unit.

Playing Joe in the main lineup is as much or more about Gobert as it is anything else. Nobody has the chemistry with Gobert that Joe has and it is not even close. Their relationship is the difference between having Joe play well (which takes him from a fringe NBA player to the premier glue guy in the league), and Gobert going from a second-tier center to a first.

Lastly, Joe just sets a tone for excellent basketball decision-making and moving the ball. His passing is contagious. He needs to keep doing that. He needs to start.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this... we need Rudy and Joe to play more together... we need a better pick and roll screener in the second unit. I like Joe starting... I'd like a do over on the Conley deal and I'd love to see what we look like with a Satoransky type pg. Hopefully Conley turns into t Mountain Mike and makes me look stupid... it just doesn't feel like it fits and I think long term DM needs to be the smallest guy in the starting lineup... whether he is pg or sg I don't care as much... just want someone with size, shooting, and some ball handling ability next to him.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I agree with all of this... we need Rudy and Joe to play more together... we need a better pick and roll screener in the second unit. I like Joe starting... I'd like a do over on the Conley deal and I'd love to see what we look like with a Satoransky type pg. Hopefully Conley turns into t Mountain Mike and makes me look stupid... it just doesn't feel like it fits and I think long term DM needs to be the smallest guy in the starting lineup... whether he is pg or sg I don't care as much... just want someone with size, shooting, and some ball handling ability next to him.
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If I could get a redo and this were possible, I'd use that cap on Brogdon, JaMychal Green or Marcus Morris, possibly another NBA player (strike on Zubac or Caruso while their teams waited on Kawhi), then still have Crowder and a pick to draft Paschall who was one of two players I felt good about in the draft at our spot. All of these theoretical ideas are accurately rooted in what was possible with the cap-space at the time (Korver would have to be gone, btw, and Bojan wouldn't be here but you can't have everything).

But we can't. I don't have high hopes that Conley can just suddenly become the player he needs to be in order for this to work, but that's why you give him the nominal starter spot and all of the backup 1 minutes so he can have an outlet for his ball-dominant game to build confidence.
 
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NUMBERICA said:
If I could get a redo and this were possible, I'd use that cap on Brogdon, JaMychal Green or Marcus Morris, possibly another NBA player (strike on Zubac or Caruso while their teams waited on Kawhi), then still have Crowder and a pick to draft Paschall who was one of two players I felt good about in the draft at our spot. All of these theoretical ideas are accurately rooted in what was possible with the cap-space at the time (Korver would have to be gone, btw, and Bojan wouldn't be here but you can't have everything).

But we can't. I don't have high hopes that Conley can just suddenly become the player he needs to be in order for this to work, but that's why you give him the nominal starter spot and all of the backup 1 minutes so he can have an outlet for his ball-dominant game to build confidence.
Click to expand...

I can’t bag on the Conley deal too hard because I was for it at the time... just wish we could have gotten a credible stretch 4 with last years group to see what we really need. DM is malleable positionally but if we are going to win at the level we want to then we need to squeeze every ounce of superstar out of him.

I think we could move Mike and fill some tot the holes but I don’t think we have the stones to do it early enough... it should all get a lot better so either way I think we end up a lot better going forward. Just not sure we have the talent to get into the championship conversation.
 
It's obvious he needs to start but I'm not sure it'll happen. Quin is very stubborn when it comes to changing the starting lineup. If Rubio and Favors were still here we would still be starting them along with Rudy, even though it was obvious we needed more shooting in the starting lineup. I could see him starting Joe against certain matchups but I think Royce will remain the starter in the majority of games.
 
infection said:
The notion that Joe should come off the bench.

And, yes, I know it's popular to say Conley should come off the bench, but it's very simple to have Royce coming off the bench. I know that's not kosher in current JazzFanz theology, though.
Click to expand...
I’m as big of a Royce O’Neale fan as you’ll find, and I think Jingles should be starting and have O’Neale come off the bench.
 
It's obvious that Joe plays better with the starters and makes them play better too. He doesn't have that magic over Mudiay or Davis. But I think it would also made sense for the bench. It would improve it's defense, Royce could be more effective on drives against opposite benches and if Mudiay kicks the ball out to the perimeter I would rather have Royce than Joe waiting for the pass to shoot, he is used to being effective on few attemps.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Will he be this good with another ball dominant player on the wing in place of Royce. I still kind of like Royce starting. I think the adjustment becomes Ingles starts and Conley subs really early for Royce and runs the bench units... maybe. I still think the biggest issue is that when Joe runs pick and roll with the bench guys he runs it with Ed or Green. I think Conley doing the same thing may hurt the bench production but maybe Conley can shoot it better off the dribble and just never pass it to Ed.

Long story short I don’t think it is just him starting or off the bench I think it has to do with how he’s used... which will change either way when Conley is back.
Click to expand...
This. Totally this.

Royce is a huge ingredient to what we’ve seen from Joe lately.

Conley should spend more time with the bench unit (and against bench units). It sucks that we have to start him.
 
NUMBERICA said:
It's on Conley to change, not the rest of the team, frankly. He needs to start getting that or that's where I start taking and fielding calls on him.

I think you are dead-on with that Royce subs in for Conley or Mitchell so that whoever comes out becomes the primary ball-handler in the second unit.

Playing Joe in the main lineup is as much or more about Gobert as it is anything else. Nobody has the chemistry with Gobert that Joe has and it is not even close. Their relationship is the difference between having Joe play well (which takes him from a fringe NBA player to the premier glue guy in the league), and Gobert going from a second-tier center to a first.

Lastly, Joe just sets a tone for excellent basketball decision-making and moving the ball. His passing is contagious. He needs to keep doing that. He needs to start.
Click to expand...
More this.
 
NUMBERICA said:
If I could get a redo and this were possible, I'd use that cap on Brogdon, JaMychal Green or Marcus Morris, possibly another NBA player (strike on Zubac or Caruso while their teams waited on Kawhi), then still have Crowder and a pick to draft Paschall who was one of two players I felt good about in the draft at our spot. All of these theoretical ideas are accurately rooted in what was possible with the cap-space at the time (Korver would have to be gone, btw, and Bojan wouldn't be here but you can't have everything).

But we can't. I don't have high hopes that Conley can just suddenly become the player he needs to be in order for this to work, but that's why you give him the nominal starter spot and all of the backup 1 minutes so he can have an outlet for his ball-dominant game to build confidence.
Click to expand...
Brogdon would be ****ing perfect for this team. ****.
 
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