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How good or bad is Enes Kanter. Really.

Al did 21.8/11.2 last year and was not voted in.
Sap did 17.9/8.5 and was a reserve.

That's a fairly big difference production wise. Al had the better PER. Charlotte and Atlanta's records were comparable. Why was Sap voted in over Al?

Maybe because he was more athletic and fitting to an All-Star game.

Al was injured to start the season, and his numbers suffered a little, then took off after the Allstar break. He was a 20/10 guy in the second half. Had his first half been like his second half, I'm sure he'd have been an Allstar. His second half was pretty damned good.


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One thing I like about the core 5, is that they are all pretty even in terms of talent level and effectiveness in the NBA and we will see somebody different step up on any given night. Kanter was the guy who had looked the worst so far and people were starting get a little down on him (perhaps rightly so, to an extent, if you're just judging on what you'd seen early on) and he goes out and gets 27 on 12-17. None of these guys are the superstar we all wish we had, but they are all good NBA players and as a fivesome, they have a chance to do some damage in the NBA this season.

This is probably really crazy, but I wonder if a team with 5 guys of similar talent level can create a great team. We all know the current method, that you need that go-to superstar in crunch time to win big games. That obviously can be effective if you have one of the very top guys, top 5 really. What if you have 5 effective guys on the floor at the same time, so that the D cannot focus on one or two guys? I don't see why it cannot work, and maybe the Spurs against the Heat last year is the model.
 
This is probably really crazy, but I wonder if a team with 5 guys of similar talent level can create a great team. We all know the current method, that you need that go-to superstar in crunch time to win big games. That obviously can be effective if you have one of the very top guys, top 5 really. What if you have 5 effective guys on the floor at the same time, so that the D cannot focus on one or two guys? I don't see why it cannot work, and maybe the Spurs against the Heat last year is the model.

Yep. The other thing I like about the group of 5 (and I don't dismiss franklin's point about the top 8-10 guys either because Gobert, Exum, Booker and Novak are important pieces as well) is that they really seem to like each other, enjoy playing together and feed off each other. As professional athletes, they of course have egos, but those egos don't seem to get in the way of how they play together. As a group they have very specific strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other very well and they seem to understand that. My biggest concern with the group of 5 is defense, but I think there is some potential there as well.

Now give me some more kool-aid, dammit!
 
Personality-wise, he is extremely fitting for the Jazz to become a franchise player, but how much money he'll want and do the Jazz still care about personality will decide this.
 
Al was injured to start the season, and his numbers suffered a little, then took off after the Allstar break. He was a 20/10 guy in the second half. Had his first half been like his second half, I'm sure he'd have been an Allstar. His second half was pretty damned good.

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Yep, Al Jefferson was All-NBA third team by the end of the season, which puts him as one of the top 15 guys in the league, which ultimately is a bigger deal that All-Star anyway as that makes puts you top 25. Also All-NBA is an entire season award, where All-Star just rewards for half a season.

For as much as it seems Jazzfanz in general wants to jump all over Millsap's all-star sack and rip Jefferson at the same time, Jefferson was the far better former Jazz power forward last year.
 
Yep, Al Jefferson was All-NBA third team by the end of the season, which puts him as one of the top 15 guys in the league, which ultimately is a bigger deal that All-Star anyway as that makes puts you top 25. Also All-NBA is an entire season award, where All-Star just rewards for half a season.

For as much as it seems Jazzfanz in general wants to jump all over Millsap's all-star sack and rip Jefferson at the same time, Jefferson was the far better former Jazz power forward last year.
Never realized Jefferson was a PF. All this time I thought Charlotte had McRoberts playing forward and Big Al at the 5. Guess I must not be watching the same games.

There has never been any question AJ can score. He's elite in that respect. And that is largely what gets votes for all-star and all-NBA teams. He's also a HUGE liability on the defensive end. Every year we read about him wanting to get better. And every year the results are about the same. Utah had an amazing scorer at PF by the name of Boozer. You may remember him. Problem was the same as Jefferson: when you pay a player that much money, he HAS to be at least adequate on the other end of the court.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/2...nets-center-al-jefferson-im.html#.VCxwEGddV8E
 
Never realized Jefferson was a PF. All this time I thought Charlotte had McRoberts playing forward and Big Al at the 5. Guess I must not be watching the same games.

There has never been any question AJ can score. He's elite in that respect. And that is largely what gets votes for all-star and all-NBA teams. He's also a HUGE liability on the defensive end. Every year we read about him wanting to get better. And every year the results are about the same. Utah had an amazing scorer at PF by the name of Boozer. You may remember him. Problem was the same as Jefferson: when you pay a player that much money, he HAS to be at least adequate on the other end of the court.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/2...nets-center-al-jefferson-im.html#.VCxwEGddV8E

PF/C, not sure it makes much difference - hell, it seems nobody can agree on whether Duncan is a PF or a C and he is one of the best players who has ever played the game. They are post players. Period. WRT the rest of your post, I have no idea what you were babbling about or what your point (if you had one) was.
 
One thing I like about the core 5, is that they are all pretty even in terms of talent level and effectiveness in the NBA and we will see somebody different step up on any given night. Kanter was the guy who had looked the worst so far and people were starting get a little down on him (perhaps rightly so, to an extent, if you're just judging on what you'd seen early on) and he goes out and gets 27 on 12-17. None of these guys are the superstar we all wish we had, but they are all good NBA players and as a fivesome, they have a chance to do some damage in the NBA this season.
I might downgrade Kanter a bit just based on his lack of defense. But I do agree the team is balanced. Then add in Hood, Exum and Gobert as young guys who can all develop into players of the same caliber as the current group. And Booker just a notch below, although who knows if he improves under Quin like DMC did.

Like your optimism. I also think Utah could do some damage early when teams will still be looking at them as a young, 25-win team from last year. The pace and depth will be surprising to opponents.
 
It is way too early to judge Kanter. The only reason why guys are jumping on him is because their expectations where over the top. Yes he was the 3rd pick but it was a weak draft and Kanter was drafted on potential. The guy is still 21-22 years old. He was not used properly and had a serious injury that set him back. I have total confidence Kanter can be an above average player and if the Jazz win, he can make multiple All-star games. The only thing holding him back from being great is his lack of effort and knowledge on defense. He will never be a block shot guy but I don't really think he was drafted for that. I think Kanter has a chance to be a big time scorer if he starts making threes.
 
At this point it's still too difficult to make a call on Enes. This is his first shot with a new system, a new coach, and a new role. 7 games in and he had a big game. That's promising. But, he's still looked lost on both sides for the most part and is still learning. The question is will he ever get it. I hope so.

Either way, you hold on to him at least to the deadline. If he plays well, keep him. If he fails, you package him for a solid player only.

He has potential even if he doesn't get it this season tho.
 
Yep, Al Jefferson was All-NBA third team by the end of the season, which puts him as one of the top 15 guys in the league, which ultimately is a bigger deal that All-Star anyway as that makes puts you top 25. Also All-NBA is an entire season award, where All-Star just rewards for half a season.

For as much as it seems Jazzfanz in general wants to jump all over Millsap's all-star sack and rip Jefferson at the same time, Jefferson was the far better former Jazz power forward last year.

It's crazy that Jefferson had a better year than DeMarcus Cousins. It's mind bottling how low his value is. You could build a solid team with him at his current salary. In fact, I think he's possibly a better fit next to CP3 than Griffin is (that team is flawed).
 
I feel like we're going to have conversations about Jusuf Nurkic in the near-ish future.
 
I feel like we're going to have conversations about Jusuf Nurkic in the near-ish future.

Better rebounder, but more importantly he's a wayyyy better passer at age 20.

It really kills a team's offense when your big-man can't pass.
 
Nurkic might grow to be a monster, but we have Gobert and Favors for the 5 spot so I don't mind.

Maybe we can pick-up Sap in the offseason, and ship off Kanter for something.

Burke/Exum
Burks
Hayward/Hood
Millsap
Favors/Gobert

I'm fine with that. Better yet-- I think that's a playoff team.
 
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I feel like we're going to have conversations about Jusuf Nurkic in the near-ish future.

I don't know, I find him a little bit too slow for the NBA, don't get fooled by some of the scouting reports about his quick feet. I think it will turn out to be not that true for the NBA. With that said, I believe he can be good if they be patient with him. Though, I believe he will struggle a lot in his first years, just like Enes did(Enes still struggles though, lol). Because, Nurkic plays even below-er the rim than Enes, he's kinda horrendous at P&R defense, he literally can't stay on the court due to foul problems and he has some problems at understanding the game(again just like Enes). Plus he might have questionable attitude.

However the things that make me think that he can be a solid player in the NBA, one is his passing game like Dala mentioned, and the other is his ability of using his big body. Kanter really could learn a lot from this kid about that.

Nevertheless, to me, his upside is good, a Pekovic lite or a even a full Pekovic, but I'd just be cautious. I believe there are better euro C/PF prospects.

Better rebounder, but more importantly he's a wayyyy better passer at age 20.

It really kills a team's offense when your big-man can't pass.
Passing, you are definitely right. Better rebounder? I'd say they are about the same, at least he's not clearly better at this point even though he might be eventually. First, the pre-season numbers might be deceiving, his per 36 rebounding was around 11 with CED. He averaged better numbers in U-20 but it was division B and Enes had much more impressive numbers in youth tournaments in A divisions. Second, the kid doesn't(can't) jump much for rebounds, I know you may not have to jump much when you are 280 and almost 7 feet tall but it certainly won't be easier to grab them in the NBA on a regular basis against athletic bigs than it was in not-top European competition.
 
Kanter seemed to be an elite rebounder in his younger years. I don't really know what happened. *shrug*
 
Kanter seemed to be an elite rebounder in his younger years. I don't really know what happened. *shrug*

A combination of playing against backups and having 20 more pounds to throw around. He is still a very good rebounder imo.
 
Nurkic might grow to be a monster, but we have Gobert and Favors for the 5 spot so I don't mind.

Maybe we can pick-up Sap in the offseason, and ship off Kanter for something.

Burke/Exum
Burks
Hayward/Hood
Millsap
Favors/Gobert

I'm fine with that. Better yet-- I think that's a playoff team.

Fully on board with going after Millsap in the offseason.
 
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