How white liberals view black voters

[JazzyFresh]

Giving government handouts does not equal lifting people up. I know it has the appearance of doing the right thing when you pass out benefits to people simply because they exist, but it does not do them any long-term favors. Teaching people to stand with their hand out is not a good life strategy. Promising government handouts that won't ever be realized, in order to get votes, is even worse.

What I don't think is working out "well" is the liberal approach (partially described above) taken for so many years in places like Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, etc. where we see the situation worsening year after year. School standards are ridiculously low. Policing is ineffective, partly because the police are on notice that any interaction is going to be judged on racial terms. Many families are a disaster, often because misguided policies encourage men to leave which creates dangerous and cyclical cultural norms.

I know that these problems are challenging and complex. I believe that they become even more challenging when we implement government policies that create a culture of dependency. IMO, it is much better to give a hand up than a hand-out. We need teachers with high expectations, police who can confidently become involved in their communities, leaders who inspire people to work and to improve their communities, volunteers who set an example at ground level, and much more. I know many, many people who have overcome poverty and become financially independent, and I believe similar routes remain open to anyone determined to better their situation. The saddest thing to me is that some people no longer believe in the American Dream. As with anything these sorts of thoughts are self-fulfilling prophecies. I do not believe that it is too late to chart a better course.

Fantastic post.

 

[babe]

Are you saying that you don't think they exist, or that you can't use Google yourself to find out?

uhhhmmmm.... who needs to be brainwashed by believing Google, really????

Everyone knows there are millions of fictitious "voters" whose ballots are just made up by community organizers..... uhhhmmmm.... community inventors...... no.....people inventors.

So after the election, they start trucking in the ballots which are all definitely represented by real people, somewhere, who are afraid to show their ID, cannot get to the DMV.... because they aren't real in the first place,

Pretty sure Facebook makes up a lot of users, too. Programmed bots who prattle the party line and overwhelm the occasional wandering conservative who hasn't seen the show. yah know.... The whole universe is an algorithm.

Pretty sure about 67% of JFC are Jason alts, too.

The webz is the greatest show on earth.

So working out this reality a little further, I've got the slogans needed for the next Antifa/WhiteNationalist staged riot..... yah know.... paid actors on both sides clubbing one another for good money... $20/hour from Soros.....

"Bot Deniers are Racists too"

"White Bots are better than N-Bots"

"Red Bots Rule"

 

[One Brow]

Giving government handouts does not equal lifting people up.

Helping people get through difficult times creates social stability, upward mobility, and improves their lives long-term.

What I don't think is working out "well" is the liberal approach (partially described above) taken for so many years in places like Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, etc. where we see the situation worsening year after year.

You mean, in places from where the wealthy fled to the suburbs, removing the tax base and leaving the cities to fend for themselves, things got worse? That undercuts your position that when you leave people alone, things get better.

NYC has every bit a liberal a government as Detroit. However, because the transportation logistics are so difficult for suburbans, it has maintained a wealthy tax base in the city, and has seen many yearws of improvements.

I know that these problems are challenging and complex. I believe that they become even more challenging when we implement government policies that create a culture of dependency.

I'm much more interested in governing by what has been shown to work than by what JoeBagadonuts believes.

 

[One Brow]

So after the election, they start trucking in the ballots which are all definitely represented by real people, somewhere, who are afraid to show their ID, cannot get to the DMV.... because they aren't real in the first place,

I find it hard to believe you are this naive. If people want to truck in phony ballots, a little thing like voter ID won't stop them.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Helping people get through difficult times creates social stability, upward mobility, and improves their lives long-term.



You mean, in places from where the wealthy fled to the suburbs, removing the tax base and leaving the cities to fend for themselves, things got worse? That undercuts your position that when you leave people alone, things get better.

NYC has every bit a liberal a government as Detroit. However, because the transportation logistics are so difficult for suburbans, it has maintained a wealthy tax base in the city, and has seen many yearws of improvements.



I'm much more interested in governing by what has been shown to work than by what JoeBagadonuts believes.

I will admit that Rudy Giuliani's term in New York resulted in an New York resulted in an almost miraculous turnaround in that city... wait, he was an R, wasn't he. Let's see, what other examples of success have you pointed to? None? I'm curious where you see these examples of liberal leadership that worked. Are they in America? Venezuela? Where?

 

[One Brow]

I will admit that Rudy Giuliani's term in New York resulted in an New York resulted in an almost miraculous turnaround in that city... wait, he was an R, wasn't he.

He was fortunate Clinton (D) was President, as the economy generally rebounded.

Let's see, what other examples of success have you pointed to? None? I'm curious where you see these examples of liberal leadership that worked. Are they in America? Venezuela? Where?

If we are going abroad, Germany, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Canada, for a start.

At the US state level, there's New York, Massachusetts, California, Washington, Oregon, and Delaware.

At the city level, there's New York, Boston, San Francisco, and several others.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

He was fortunate Clinton (D) was President, as the economy generally rebounded.



If we are going abroad, Germany, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Canada, for a start.

At the US state level, there's New York, Massachusetts, California, Washington, Oregon, and Delaware.

At the city level, there's New York, Boston, San Francisco, and several others.

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree, especially regarding your US state choices. California is an unmitigated disaster. I can't even believe you think the government there has done a good job. San Francisco is sad. If you visited 20 years ago and have visited again within the last two or three years I have a difficult time imagining how you could think their government has done a good job.

 

[str8line]

 

[One Brow]

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree, especially regarding your US state choices. California is an unmitigated disaster. I can't even believe you think the government there has done a good job. San Francisco is sad. If you visited 20 years ago and have visited again within the last two or three years I have a difficult time imagining how you could think their government has done a good job.

Well, since I prefer metrics over feelings, I suppose we'll just have to disagree that your feelings should be more important than metrics.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Well, since I prefer metrics over feelings, I suppose we'll just have to disagree that your feelings should be more important than metrics.

 

[Zombie]

Lmao. This made me think of something I saw today.

 

[babe]

I find it hard to believe you are this naive. If people want to truck in phony ballots, a little thing like voter ID won't stop them.

And ..........A little registration information available for examination by all interested parties could enable anyone to spot a large number of fake ballots. Lessee.....250 k voters in Santa Clara where the Census said the population was 225 k? And it's not news? 240 k dem straight line tickets and only 10 k with a smattering of mixed votes on them????

You are deliberately dishonest if you don't care to investigate irregularities. Or if you only look for R cheating.

(edit)

I have long questioned how much a few D centers in CA can so dominate the state with overwhelming stats in D voters.

humans on any question rarely line up in near unanimity. I see Utah voters turn in 75% R votes in a lot of counties, and Ds turn in 75% in some localities like Salt Lake City. Being on the ground, and actually at the polls during voting gives a sense of the drift, although it is "anecdotal" evidence.

Being in California a lot, and meeting a lot of people, I realize that there are a lot of Republicans there, and they do not believe their votes are counted right.

I was conjuring up an example above which I gave as an example of a situation that would be unbelievable, and should get everyone upset enough to investigate. But in my observation, there are many ideological people who think their cause justifies cheating. And some just corrupt opportunists of whatever kind who will cheat if they can....

But here is Judicial Watch, routinely dissed by dishonest politicians because it routinely is successful in its efforts to bring the truth to light.....

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press...as-part-of-judicial-watch-lawsuit-settlement/

I won't link other items I found which would indicate that CA has 40 M people living there, with 18 M registered voters @ 74% of eligible persons (about 24M), that Los Angeles County is 10 M in population, with 150 K homeless and 2 M illegal/undocumented.... that a majority of its immigrants are Asian, not Mexican, etc etc.

1.5 M registered voters is a huge number in LA..... registered but have not voted in years.

yah, people move, especially in LA.

In the 2016 Presidential election, 3.3 M votes were counted, 72% for Hillary.

Lessee..... 8M citiizens, 4M eligible to vote.....3 M actually registered validly, and 1.5 M "voters" extra on the rolls.

Looks like mre votes cast than registered, eligible voters to me.... about 0.3 M extra votes there. fraudulent votes.

 

[Red]

Landmark US case to expose rampant racial bias behind death penalty:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-rampant-racial-bias-behind-the-death-penalty

 

[Gameface]

How do they verify that i am eligible to vote if they do not check for ID assuming i speak perfect american english and look like an US citizen?

You have to be registered to vote and that has to be your designated voting location. They have a list of names of people who are registered to vote at that location and when you walk up you tell them your name. They look through their list, find your name and have you sign next to it. Then you vote.

 

[Gameface]

Fantastic post.

Aaaaaand you legitimacy as an independent is gone...

 

[lauriandres]

You have to be registered to vote and that has to be your designated voting location. They have a list of names of people who are registered to vote at that location and when you walk up you tell them your name. They look through their list, find your name and have you sign next to it. Then you vote.

But assuming that the centralized ID is not compulsory in USA - how they even verify that the person who wants to register himself - that he is a citizen of the USA?

 

[JazzyFresh]

Aaaaaand you legitimacy as an independent is gone...

My votes since I've been of age

-Clinton
-Bush
-Obama
-Romney
-McMullin in protest to Trump and Hillary. Two of the worst candidates in history.
-Right now Warren's a little(kind of alot) extreme for my liking but she has a slight edge over Tulsi. Sadly the Democratic party is a **** show right now though. I miss their old actual days of true Liberalism. The Republican party is laughable at best. It really needs some young blood.

At the end of the day, give me a Democrat or Republican that preaches capitalism, preaches unity from both parties, is mutual on the 2nd amendment, and is for state rights for abortion and he/she has my vote. That's not asking for much. Sadly it's just too extreme. What's the point of going from one extreme in Trump to another? Bidens not terrible but I fear he's lost it a bit. Dude can't even remember what state he's in like Trump. I call him Trump-lite.

 

[Stoked]

Helping people get through difficult times creates social stability, upward mobility, and improves their lives long-term.

In actuality many of these programs unintentionally, and some times intentionally, limit and restrict the upward mobility of those on these programs. It is creating dependency. I’ve personally seen it 10s of thousands of times.

I say this as a policy expert on a welfare based federal program. Many of these programs have income and resource limits. limits that are far to low to be a livable income necessary to afford things like insurance. And potential penalties are directly counter productive to people getting back on their feet. Penalties like reduced benefits, insurance premium penalties and overpayments that can eventually be applied to tax returns or other federal payments.

 

[One Brow]

In actuality many of these programs unintentionally, and some times intentionally, limit and restrict the upward mobility of those on these programs. It is creating dependency. I’ve personally seen it 10s of thousands of times.

I say this as a policy expert on a welfare based federal program. Many of these programs have income and resource limits. limits that are far to low to be a livable income necessary to afford things like insurance. And potential penalties are directly counter productive to people getting back on their feet. Penalties like reduced benefits, insurance premium penalties and overpayments that can eventually be applied to tax returns or other federal payments.

Yes, there are difficulties for people that have to rely on these programs long-term. Would they be better off never having received money in the first place, or is the better solution to find a better way to transition them of welfare programs?

 

[Stoked]

Yes, there are difficulties for people that have to rely on these programs long-term. Would they be better off never having received money in the first place, or is the better solution to find a better way to transition them of welfare programs?

There are several changes that can easily be made to these programs that would facilitate people getting off these programs. Such as changing the math on how “earned income” (self employment and wages) affect these benefits, increasing the resource and income cutoffs and stop penalizing people under ISM type policies.

Also, there is an astounding lack of connection between these types of programs and job training or educational programs.