How white liberals view black voters

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by NPC D4617, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

    12,479
    1,613
    228
    May 26, 2010
    They still have to vote for candidates/referenda. Anyone who's not incarcerated should be able to vote, and I think the incarcerated, as well.
     
  2. LogGrad98

    LogGrad98 Well-Known Member Contributor

    21,278
    4,061
    263
    Jul 7, 2010
    Yeah that is too fine a point. In that vein you could argue everyone has every right everywhere, they are just suppressed more in some places than in others. Then the dialogue has no weight.
     
  3. Joe Bagadonuts

    Joe Bagadonuts Well-Known Member

    10,039
    1,466
    228
    Aug 23, 2010
    In other words you always have it nearby and you definitely know where it is, just like you should and just like almost everyone else does. Not even sure why we're having this discussion.
     
  4. Joe Bagadonuts

    Joe Bagadonuts Well-Known Member

    10,039
    1,466
    228
    Aug 23, 2010
    Here is my study:
    If you eliminate barriers to cheating then a larger percentage of the population tends to cheat. Witness the looting that occurs during power outages for example. There is ample video evidence of this phenomena.

    For that reason it is not difficult to conclude that if voting is easily manipulated that eventually candidates who are willing to sanction that type of manipulation will emerge. ID is a very reasonable measure to help make this sort of manipulation much more unlikely, especially since having an ID is a useful and ordinary thing that every adult ought to do.
     
  5. Joe Bagadonuts

    Joe Bagadonuts Well-Known Member

    10,039
    1,466
    228
    Aug 23, 2010
    Hear that One Brow? You are a straw man.
     
  6. silesian

    silesian Well-Known Member

    4,319
    909
    163
    May 30, 2010
    Anecdotes and analogies are nice and all but they are certainly not studies nor are they particularly compelling.

    Which measures are you referring to? Do you have any evidence that they stop cheating?

    They are designed to suppress the vote so I doubt they incidentally also stop cheating.
     
  7. JazzyFresh

    JazzyFresh Well-Known Member

    3,605
    1,135
    178
    Feb 19, 2015
    No ID seems far more oppressive/suppressive to me. No ID most likely means no job unless illegal jobs, no job equals no money, no money equals poverty.
     
    fishonjazz likes this.
  8. Joe Bagadonuts

    Joe Bagadonuts Well-Known Member

    10,039
    1,466
    228
    Aug 23, 2010
    This conversation with you is extremely nonsensical since you have verified that we both agree that ID should be required to vote and we both agree that it should be easy to obtain. My comment was directed toward a guy who disagrees with both of us. He says that ID should not be required.
     
  9. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    54,194
    9,929
    388
    Nov 4, 2010
    I said I don't usually have it on my person. And that I almost never need it. (Which is like what was being discussed you know?)
    Like when I went to the wedding in Tooele last night my ID was in my truck in my garage at home.


    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
     
  10. Joe Bagadonuts

    Joe Bagadonuts Well-Known Member

    10,039
    1,466
    228
    Aug 23, 2010
    I'm sorry. I just don't get your point in the context of this conversation. I've learned an awful lot about your relationship to your ID, though.
     
  11. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    54,194
    9,929
    388
    Nov 4, 2010
    You would have to go back and read at the point when I started posting to understand. I don't blame ya if ya don't though.
    The gist is that someone was saying that you need your id on your person all the time for all sorts of things.
    I simply explained that isn't true. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
     
    Joe Bagadonuts likes this.
  12. Stoked

    Stoked Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

    38,806
    5,469
    388
    Dec 13, 2011
    Incarcerated? I’ll part with you on this issue there. But once their sentence is over there is no justification for restricting this right. None.
     
    LogGrad98 likes this.
  13. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

    12,479
    1,613
    228
    May 26, 2010
    People cheat for gain. What you are saying is that people will cheat to spend what it often more than an hour in line to cast a single vote. That's a lot of time for very little gain.

    Election fraud is rampant and occurs pretty much every election. Voter impersonation fraud is extremely rare.

    Voter ID does nothing to stop election fraud. It's a solution in search of a problem.
     
  14. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

    12,479
    1,613
    228
    May 26, 2010
    Having already advocated for three different types of IDs (mailed to voter, signature, and verbal information), your willingness to ignore what I said can only be taken to be sad.
     
    Zombie likes this.
  15. One Brow

    One Brow Well-Known Member

    12,479
    1,613
    228
    May 26, 2010
    I think we can reasonably disagree here.

    Part of my position comes from how residency is handled for the incarcerated. If a person gets arrested in North St. Louis and incarcerated near Farmington, for the entire period of incarceration their census value (for legislative districting, federal spending, etc.) gets counted toward Farmington, but when they are released, they are forced to return to St. Louis, and none of the benefits of that census value Farmington received go to that felon or the community that needed the benefits. If Farmington get benefits from the presence of an adult citizen, some of that should go to the adult citizen, or the at least that citizen should have a say in it.
     
  16. Stoked

    Stoked Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

    38,806
    5,469
    388
    Dec 13, 2011
    To me the answer lies in prison reform and stopping mass incarceration. Not granting them the right to vote while incarcerated. But yeah, we can certainly reasonably disagree here.
     
    Gameface likes this.
  17. Harambe

    Harambe Well-Known Member Contributor

    6,315
    806
    198
    May 26, 2010
    Let's.... let's correct this right now. Voting IS a right of every citizen. Once you become a felon, you have done something bad enough to have that right suspended. Over a period of time afterwards, you can petition for that right to be resumed.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of it being taken away at all. But to argue that it's not a right just doesn't feel appropriate.
     
  18. Harambe

    Harambe Well-Known Member Contributor

    6,315
    806
    198
    May 26, 2010
    Your research is astounding. I'm super impressed. Which publication are you going to publish through?
     
  19. Stoked

    Stoked Well-Known Member Contributor 2018 Award Winner

    38,806
    5,469
    388
    Dec 13, 2011
    I never said it wasn’t a right...

    I am saying that there shouldn’t be a suspension of that right post sentence.
     
    Harambe likes this.
  20. fishonjazz

    fishonjazz Well-Known Member Contributor 2019 Award Winner 2018 Award Winner

    54,194
    9,929
    388
    Nov 4, 2010
    Ya you two are saying the same thing from what i can gather.


    Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
     
    Stoked likes this.

Share This Page