Is COVID killing people

[LogGrad98]

So the newest (well newer at least) controversy around COVID is the dubious report published by the CDC that confuses everyone as to what COVID is doing. It said that only 6% of COVID deaths listed COVID alone on the death certificate, while all others listed some other comorbidity reason along-side COVID. So what do you think? Is this all a bunch of hooey? Is COVID really only 6% as deadly as the "fear-mongers" make it out to be? Or do these still represent avoidable deaths caused, in addition to underlying factors, by COVID-19?

 

[LogGrad98]

I voted 90%+ because there is no good way to tell how much of an impact COVID had in some cases, or if they were already dying and it just sped up the process. My wife has a friend who had a family member die who was already terminal (cancer) and given less than 6 months to live. They contracted COVID at about the 2 month mark of that and died at the 3 month mark, so what killed them? I would argue the cancer did, COVID just sped it up.

 

[Eminence]

Same vote as you. Covid, like most infectious disease will finish off some folks already having a tough time, but plenty of folks would've had plenty of time left otherwise. Those 94/6 numbers in particular seem kinda abused in how various outlets are reporting them (things like pneumonia being a co-morbitiy).

 

[infection]

COVID prolonged the life of at least two of my patients. A better way of looking at this is through excess all-cause mortality.

 

[Zombie]

I would have voted 90%+ but one option that was left out is that there are a substantial number of deaths that haven't been attributed to Covid but were in fact caused by it. Not sure how many exactly, but it's pretty common for deaths to be revised upwards after outbreaks to correct for people killed by a disease without ever getting tested for it.

 

[LogGrad98]

I would have voted 90%+ but one option that was left out is that there are a substantial number of deaths that haven't been attributed to Covid but were in fact caused by it. Not sure how many exactly, but it's pretty common for deaths to be revised upwards after outbreaks to correct for people killed by a disease without ever getting tested for it.

That would be the something else option.

 

[Zombie]

That would be the something else option.

Yeah that's what I voted, hence the explanation. What I meant by the 90% thing was that I think a fair number of deaths attributable to Covid were among people who weren't long for the world in any case. Probably around 10% but that's just a gut feeling without anything to back it up.

 

[Avery]

It’s all a deep state conspiracy and everyone who died is really just living on a tropical island in Wyoming. #thetruthisoutthere

 

[One Brow]

In over 92% of the deaths COVID is listed as the only underlying cause.

 

[One Brow]

COVID prolonged the life of at least two of my patients. A better way of looking at this is through excess all-cause mortality.

From the CDC:
Total predicted number of excess deaths since 2/1/2020 across the United States: 183,392 - 245,305

 

[lauriandres]

Just my thoughts-ideas-questions.

Although there have been cases where a perfectly healthy person has got COVID and died - please correct me, but i guess that only autopsy or full body MRI/tomography/surgery will show whether everything is correct with the body or not. For example, all those fancy health tests for sportsmen (VO2 max etc) do not show the actual mechanical state of the heart. A la like with cars - on paper Formula 1 on WRC car engine is more powerful than ordinary VAG engine, but you never know whether the high tech engine will last 10 minutes or 10 hours.

Are those things more dangerous than COVID or not:

1. Being naked then covered with poison ivy leaves (poison ivy does not grow in Europe so my only info is from Wikipedia - seems a nasty plant).
2. The bite of a scorpion, rattle snake or black widow spider.
3. Lyme disease or tick-borne encephalitis. In Estonia those two are quite common - as much as i have heard - specially the encephalitis seems much more serious than COVID (destroys brain instead of lungs).

Also, i guess there are plenty of people who say that COVID is bad, but climbing Everest, K2 or Annapurna is perfectly OK to do. Even if you have family at home.

 

[One Brow]

Although there have been cases where a perfectly healthy person has got COVID and died - please correct me, but i guess that only autopsy or full body MRI/tomography/surgery will show whether everything is correct with the body or not.

Are there humans where everything is "correct" with the body? I'd guess not many.

Are those things more dangerous than COVID or not:

You didn't mention any contagious things.

 

[lauriandres]

Are there humans where everything is "correct" with the body? I'd guess not many.



You didn't mention any contagious things.

Does it matter in the grand scheme of things if something bad is contagious or not? My pure hunch, but i guess most of those who have some other serious condition, for example Down syndrome, Alzheimer, Parkinson, some body parts missing, some kind of other major disability etc etc might choose a COVID lottery ticket instead of the current problem?

Should i see that a person with a COVID infection is drowning or requires some other close up assistance for which i might capable of - is it wise to refuse the help because according to scientists COVID is dangerous? What happens if firefighter says the same "i am not going to put down the fire or going to rescue somebody from that building - i might get killed - you never know if there are ammonium nitrate or not stored"?

 

[One Brow]

Does it matter in the grand scheme of things if something bad is contagious or not? ...

I believe I made an assumption that you were making a particular point, and I was wrong to make that assumption. Is there a reason you are asking about comparative mortality, when you could just look it up?

 

[lauriandres]

I believe I made an assumption that you were making a particular point, and I was wrong to make that assumption. Is there a reason you are asking about comparative mortality, when you could just look it up?

How do you compare the mortality of COVID vs Down syndrome or COVID vs Alzheimer to make a decision which of those is worse? Does it make COVID more serious than Down syndrome or Alzheimer because it is highly contagious?

My grandmother had Alzheimer - i would say de facto she was dead about 2 years before the actual day she died; i guess (without any scientific proof) that she might have lived at least 2-5 more years; she did not had any other known bad conditions.

 

[One Brow]

How do you compare the mortality of COVID vs Down syndrome or COVID vs Alzheimer to make a decision which of those is worse? Does it make COVID more serious than Down syndrome or Alzheimer because it is highly contagious?

My grandmother had Alzheimer - i would say de facto she was dead about 2 years before the actual day she died; i guess (without any scientific proof) that she might have lived at least 2-5 more years; she did not had any other known bad conditions.

What is the reason for comparing these conditions?

 

[JazzGal]

When did illnesses become competitive?

 

[lauriandres]

When did illnesses become competitive?

Isn't that decided in a grand scheme of things i.e in real life by the market and voters? At least in my tiny country all the COVID deaths are published on the media on front pages and all not-so-popular (which do not bring ad revenue) are quickly buried somewhere.

I certainly have a personal ranking about diseases according to my parents' and my personal experience.

IMHO it is perfectly reasonable to respect COVID as you respect the enemy or opponent; however if it is OK to not approach COVID infected person (because according to scientists and doctors it is dangerous - and why should i not believe them) - why it is kind of forbidden if everybody else follows the same logic regarding dangerous stuff? What happens to the society if for example i refuse to help a drunk person sleeping outside in the snow to get back to his apartment because he might have COVID? Or again if demolition experts would say - we are not gonna defuse that WW2 era big bomb in the city centre, because it is dangerous?
Another example - if you need some kind of ASAP surgery and the only option is a surgeon who has COVID infection, but otherwise able to perform the procedure - would you refuse the procedure, because, well, COVID is dangerous and die instead? Or just some other urgent help from a COVID infected person?

 

[JazzGal]

I haven't seen anyone refusing to help others because of COVID. I work in law enforcement and the officers are taking what precautions they can while still doing their jobs.

We all make decisions every day as to what level of risk we find acceptable to us. So I find your questions impossible to answer as everyone would need to decide that for themselves. I'm at high risk to have complications from COVID-19, so my choices will differ from my healthy 25 year old relatives.

All of us are doing the best we can to figure out this strange new world, and no one is perfect at it. Mistakes are made, misunderstandings occur. I can't worry about everyone else's choices. I have decided on a path for me and do my best to follow it.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[LogGrad98]

When did illnesses become competitive?

December 2019