You really don't have reading comprehension
Is Isiah Collier finally our new Stockton?
- Thread starter The Midnight
- Start date
Your contrarian takes are trash.
How about if we just acknowledge that Collier's assist numbers are elite. For the season- his assists per minute played rank 6th in the league- behind Trae Young, Jokic, Chris Paul, Cunningham, and Haliburton. If you average his last five games (2/3 into his rookie season) his assist per minute are just slightly below the league leader Trae Young's season stats.
He is getting those elite numbers while playing on a team that is actively tanking- and many of the players he is passing to are end of the rotation guys and G league call ups. What will his assist numbers look like when he consistently has higher quality players to pass to? That is an exciting thought!
If he can reach league averages in shooting within a few years- that elite trait combined with high level effort on the defensive end would make him a high level starter. If shooting also improves to
He is getting those elite numbers while playing on a team that is actively tanking- and many of the players he is passing to are end of the rotation guys and G league call ups. What will his assist numbers look like when he consistently has higher quality players to pass to? That is an exciting thought!
If he can reach league averages in shooting within a few years- that elite trait combined with high level effort on the defensive end would make him a high level starter. If shooting also improves that will put him in elite company.
He is getting those elite numbers while playing on a team that is actively tanking- and many of the players he is passing to are end of the rotation guys and G league call ups. What will his assist numbers look like when he consistently has higher quality players to pass to? That is an exciting thought!
If he can reach league averages in shooting within a few years- that elite trait combined with high level effort on the defensive end would make him a high level starter. If shooting also improves to
How about if we just acknowledge that Collier's assist numbers are elite. For the season- his assists per minute played rank 6th in the league- behind Trae Young, Jokic, Chris Paul, Cunningham, and Haliburton. If you average his last five games (2/3 into his rookie season) his assist per minute are just slightly below the league leader Trae Young's season stats.
He is getting those elite numbers while playing on a team that is actively tanking- and many of the players he is passing to are end of the rotation guys and G league call ups. What will his assist numbers look like when he consistently has higher quality players to pass to? That is an exciting thought!
If he can reach league averages in shooting within a few years- that elite trait combined with high level effort on the defensive end would make him a high level starter. If shooting also improves that will put him in elite company.
I love Collier and haven't been bashful about it in gamethreads.
Saying that he's a better passer than Deron is pretty dumb.
In his rookie year Deron Williams had 5.6 assists per 36 min. Isaiah Collier is currently at 9.0 assists per 36 min-- and his number numbers have improved throughout the season. In the last 5 games he is averaging 10.9 per 36 min- which is better than Deron had in the best year of his whole career... (10.7).
So yeah-- I absolutely think Isaiah will be a better passer than Deron. The question is whether his shooting and other aspects of his game will give him the change to be a full-time starting point guard on a good team.
Deron certainly was a full package as a high level starter-- which of course Isaiah may never be... but he has one elite trait to build on.
The statement I called dumb was that he's already a better passer. Despite also being a gifted scorer (and therefore taking more shots per 36 minutes than Collier), he had 4 seasons with a higher assist rate than Collier currently.
Let's keep the discussion grounded in reality. Collier is a great passer. He's not currently a better passer than D-Will.
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Deron was an incredible set up man. Boozer and Okur owed their best offensive numbers to Deron’s play making ability. By your own definition he was a playmaker.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I feel like I’m getting too old for this board.
Any other long time posters feeling this way?
Some of these conversations seem insane to me.
Any other long time posters feeling this way?
Some of these conversations seem insane to me.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Pooh >>> Deron, Curry, Paul, Kidd, Nash, and Stockton cuz per 32.4 minutes in the third quarter of back to back games against the Vancouver Grizzles, he averaged more assists than those guys.
He was a superior playmaker.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
You are weird
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Lmao. He agrees with you about Deron that he’s a legit playmaker. He was referring to Bra’s weird sense of thinking
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
According to @The Midnight his own takes are trash
because he thinks Cy’s take is trash and agrees with him. Lol, can’t make this up
because he thinks Cy’s take is trash and agrees with him. Lol, can’t make this up
Since when have I ever agree with Cy on anything?According to @The Midnight his own takes are trash
Don't ever lump me into the Hood-schifino, Horton Tucker basket of trash takes.
You know, Brice might be a Bojan Bogdanovic-level shooter. That might be something to keep an eye on.
Let's compare apples to apples: rookie season stats--
www.statmuse.com
If Isaiah maintains similar production to his last 10 games- for the rest of the season-- he will jump up to about 20th on the list- about even with Magic Johnson. John Stockton is not on this list- because he only played 18 min a game as a rookie. If you adjust his numbers to per/36 min, Stockton had 10.09 in his rookie year. I project Isaiah will end at about 10.01.
Btw... Isaiah's shooting percentages would be better than Stockton's and his points per 36 min would be about the same- if he weren't taking 3 point shots. Stockton only took one 3 pointer every 3 games in his rookie year. Otherwise their stats would be about equal on shooting and points. (That doesn't mean I want him to stop. Stockton only hit 18% of his threes in his rookie year- but finished his career at 38%).
Isaiah is a better rebounder- but Stockton had twice as many steals. Turnovers per 36 min are in Stockton's favor- but not by that much.
As I mentioned in another post-- we should also factor in that Isaiah is getting his numbers on a hard-tanking team- with many of his passes going to G leaguers and cast offs from other teams...
51 games is a small sample size- but if you compare rookie season stats only-- adjusted to per 36 min--- Isaiah is very comparable to John Stockton.
One player on that list was Ennis Whatley who had better adjusted assist numbers than Stockton in his rookie year (11.07). Whatley played in the league 10 years as a back up. So of course that could happen with Isaiah.
But look at the other names on that list. Isaiah's adjusted per min assists in his rookie year will surpass Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Chris Paul, Trae Young and pretty much every other great passer you can name...
If you thought this thread was a ridiculous premise-- the stats say otherwise. Of course no one can predict which players have the drive and determination to keep getting better year after year like Stockton and Malone-- but I sure like Isaiah's demeanor and confidence. He has consistently improved throughout his first season... so I for one am very excited to see how high his ceiling will eventually be!
Most Assists Rookie Season | StatMuse
Mark Jackson has the most assists by a rookie, with 868 assists in 1987-88.
If Isaiah maintains similar production to his last 10 games- for the rest of the season-- he will jump up to about 20th on the list- about even with Magic Johnson. John Stockton is not on this list- because he only played 18 min a game as a rookie. If you adjust his numbers to per/36 min, Stockton had 10.09 in his rookie year. I project Isaiah will end at about 10.01.
Btw... Isaiah's shooting percentages would be better than Stockton's and his points per 36 min would be about the same- if he weren't taking 3 point shots. Stockton only took one 3 pointer every 3 games in his rookie year. Otherwise their stats would be about equal on shooting and points. (That doesn't mean I want him to stop. Stockton only hit 18% of his threes in his rookie year- but finished his career at 38%).
Isaiah is a better rebounder- but Stockton had twice as many steals. Turnovers per 36 min are in Stockton's favor- but not by that much.
As I mentioned in another post-- we should also factor in that Isaiah is getting his numbers on a hard-tanking team- with many of his passes going to G leaguers and cast offs from other teams...
51 games is a small sample size- but if you compare rookie season stats only-- adjusted to per 36 min--- Isaiah is very comparable to John Stockton.
One player on that list was Ennis Whatley who had better adjusted assist numbers than Stockton in his rookie year (11.07). Whatley played in the league 10 years as a back up. So of course that could happen with Isaiah.
But look at the other names on that list. Isaiah's adjusted per min assists in his rookie year will surpass Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Chris Paul, Trae Young and pretty much every other great passer you can name...
If you thought this thread was a ridiculous premise-- the stats say otherwise. Of course no one can predict which players have the drive and determination to keep getting better year after year like Stockton and Malone-- but I sure like Isaiah's demeanor and confidence. He has consistently improved throughout his first season... so I for one am very excited to see how high his ceiling will eventually be!
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
When I stuck up for Collier in December the boo birds all came out. Nah.. he is the worst player in the league they said
Now people see what I was seeing. Call it what you will, Collier runs a great offense and is a setup man. It is fun to watch.
Now people see what I was seeing. Call it what you will, Collier runs a great offense and is a setup man. It is fun to watch.
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
I liked the graphic. There are a lot of great PGs since 1990 who didn't make that list. This was praise for Collier, not Pooh.