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Israel Commences Ground Invasion into Gaza.

Yes, moral grounds, recognizing the Palestinians as full human beings, with full human rights. That means full citizenship. If they are to be a part of Israel, full Israeli citizenship. If you consider a permanent second-class status to be a valid solution, then that would speak very poorly for you.

They lost at least 3 major wars to Israel. They still want to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews they can. How can you still ask for anything from Israel at this point?

When, in modern or ancient history, has a thoroughly defeated side been able to dictate peace terms to the victors?
 
They lost at least 3 major wars to Israel. They still want to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews they can. How can you still ask for anything from Israel at this point?

When, in modern or ancient history, has a thoroughly defeated side been able to dictate peace terms to the victors?
Consider his point.

Had the Germans won, would you have been fine with the continued extermination of the Jewish people? Where do you stand on apartheid in South Africa? Would these victors have been right in their chosen "peace" terms?
 
Let's just put up a fence, not allow anything in or out of the greater area and whichever side is left standing wins.
 
Had the Germans won, would you have been fine with the continued extermination of the Jewish people? Where do you stand on apartheid in South Africa? Would these victors have been right in their chosen "peace" terms?

The victors DID settle on chosen terms in South Africa. The Apartheid regime was not overthrown by force, it was dismantled once the white community decided it was going to be dismantled. Based on a referendum, no less. The terms were very much those white South Africans were offering. There was no land reform, there was no financial restitution, there was no nationalization of industry or business, no prosecution of vast majority of perpetrators of state abuse during Apartheid. But according to you and other Palestinian apologists, Mandela was an idiot. He should've asked for way more, causing whites to laugh in his face, then continued the futile, ineffective armed struggle for another 50 years. Because despite being some 10% of the country's population, the whites were more than capable, militarily and economically, of extending their rule another 50 years.

Therein lies the brilliance of Nelson Mandela. At some point, he realized that the reality of the situation is that freedom could not be won by force. It was going to be given to you by the whites, whether you liked that or not. That also meant that you were going to get a whole lot less than you would if you could just defeat them militarily and drive them out. Nothing wrong with this, it's just being realistic. Same goes for the Palestinians. Israel is willing to give them their own country and some form of self-rule. Sure, it's not the borders the Palestinians would like, it won't include a single square inch of Jerusalem, there will be no return of refugees(especially fake ones who were born after 1948) and it will likely mean Israeli control over security. Since defeating Israel at this point falls under science fiction, it's all you're going to get. What exactly are you holding out for? Every day, the offer will get smaller and smaller, and Israel has shown over and over that they could go on under current circumstances indefinitely. I mean, the terms offered to Arafat at Camp David in 2000 are already so much more generous than anything that Palestinians can expect today.
 
Dutch, forget about the Arabs for a moment. It's clear that you have problems with them and it just fogs your mind, even though you have some valid points about it.

Anyway, I'm not talking about money, fund, political or military aid here. Humanitarian aid. Israel is both collective punishing the whole Palestinian people for the sins of Hamas by destroying their vital facilities and infrastructures and also they are hugely restricting the Humanitarian aid to the region. For tangible things, like food, baby food, clean water, wheelchairs, medicines and medical equipment, clothing, gasoline, heating aid, hygiene stuff etc. And there are many reports that claim Israel is even messing with the little allowed aid and diminishing them behind the doors. People don't even want Israel to help them, if they were just not restricting humanitarian aid to the poor Palestinian people, there would be really really huge relief for the Palestinians. Even only the volunteers and the aid from let's say French, British or Turkish people would be more than enough for that.

As for your delusions about the Arabs vs Israel. Sorry but that's just crazy talk. The Arabs have neither the military power nor the political power to do anything against Israel. Whether they are united or not, doesn't matter. You have just no idea how comfortable and authoritative Israel is in the region. You think the Saudis can use their money against Israel, money can't do a **** when you don't have any word or any power over anyone. Let alone the blockades and the restrictions, Israel even have the authority on the most border crossings in the region.

Israel is alone just too strong for the most of the Arabs and will be enough for the all of them with a tiny bit help from his uncle. Other than the Arabs, there are only two countries in the region that can potentially compete with Israel, one is Turkey and one is Iran(doubtful), which also bears nothing but a nonsensical topic anyway, because it is only hypothetical and it would be very foolish for them to mess with Israel too.

None of it matters anyway, as long as the US continue to stand behind Israel. The US provides Israel with at least $8.5 million per day as only the military aid and that's just their routine relationships. Not to mention to the very very strong bonds between the two states both politically, financially and strategically.

Plus, it's not only the US either. Yesterday for instance, Merkel the hag woman opened her ugly mouth and supported Israel along with a pious but friendly warning that they should be more careful when killing. The other western countries did the same, more or less. So, in the very very worst scenario for Israel, you'd be just talking about the third world war if anyone in the Middle East tries to swoop on Israel. Could the Arabs take the chance for the WW3 only to get destroyed by the US and the West for the Palestine? Of course not. They wouldn't do that even for themselves! They couldn't.

And before you talk about the Hamas and human shields one more time, I don't defend neither Hamas using human shields nor Israel killing kids playing on the beaches. On the contrary, I believe Hamas is behaving very very detrimental for the Palestinians and they have behaved in that way most of the time. I'm even suspicious about them whether they are genuinely contending for the Palestinian people or not. If they are genuine, then they have just no idea how much they are hurting their own case.

And again for the last time, stop telling who should live or migrate to where or who should absorb who. The Palestinians want to live in their homelands and they deserve and have every rights to do so. Nothing can justify the oppression of Israel against them.

Anyway, let me finish with a Turkish saying. Forty cats don't come up to a lion. It so fits the situation here. United or not, the Arabs just can't cope with Israel and USA.
 
DJ, you obviously have no clue of the history of that land, as proven by your posts.

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Israel laid claim to the land during the blue, your history is garbage

ooh ok, it says in wikipedia so it is indisputable truth.

OK!
 
And again for the last time, stop telling who should live or migrate to where or who should absorb who. The Palestinians want to live in their homelands and they deserve and have every rights to do so. Nothing can justify the oppression of Israel against them.

Anyway, let me finish with a Turkish saying. Forty cats don't come up to a lion. It so fits the situation here. United or not, the Arabs just can't cope with Israel and USA.


read everything.

if Palestinians want to live in their home land. they should wage war against the " opressors"

those forty kittens should not poke the lion.


in other words there are rockets flying into israel whatever damage they do they are asking for war and poking the lion.

this is wwar.
 
read everything.

if Palestinians want to live in their home land. they should wage war against the " opressors"

those forty kittens should not poke the lion.


in other words there are rockets flying into israel whatever damage they do they are asking for war and poking the lion.

this is wwar.
Thanks for reading, then. Respect your opinion.
 
Thanks for reading, then. Respect your opinion.

i just think if the arab nation is united israel cant do a thing.

the difference is world war 2/ the holocaust united the jews as 1.
i got some old family members who whore not allowed to marry each other because one was Ashkenazim and 1 was sephardic, they did anyway. they where both kicked out the respective synagoge. years later they wher eboth welcomed back though.


the arabs as a whole have nothing to unite them that strongly. all of em have different vision about islam. and that keeps them apart.
dont get me wrong jews still have different vision on judiasm, but that does not divide them anymore
 
Enes CanTear You Apart;877080 Anyway said:
Forty cats don't come up to a lion[/I]. It so fits the situation here. United or not, the Arabs just can't cope with Israel and USA.

btw been thinking of this saying.
so why do 2 cats take on the lion while the other 38 live in lavish luxury?
 
Let's just put up a fence, not allow anything in or out of the greater area and whichever side is left standing wins.

Does this include the 8.5 million dollars the US gives Israel on the daily? You know it is illegal for a United States Citizen to boycott Israel products. A citizen can have a fine up 50,000 dollars and prison for up to 10 years for boycotting Israel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycotts_of_Israel#Penalties

God I hoped Ron Paul was elected president. He would have stopped aid to Israel. That alone is reason enough to elect him.
 
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