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Israel-Hamas War

my point exactly
I’m not sure what your point was. This was not just a “daily threat”. It just seems some in Intelligence had the exact blueprint to something that one might think screams “this is not just another daily threat!!”, and blew it off. Arrogance, hubris, I don’t know. As to what they should have done, I can’t answer that either, of course, but the fact that some had the blueprint for exactly what was going to happen, seemed like that was worth noting since everyone wondered how Israeli intelligence could have missed it entirely, in the immediate aftermath, in the days following 10/7. So, can’t say they weren’t warned, and warned in explicit detail, complete with Hamas training videos of how it would play out.
 
I’m not sure what your point was. This was not just a “daily threat”. It just seems some in Intelligence had the exact blueprint to something that one might think screams “this is not just another daily threat!!”, and blew it off. Arrogance, hubris, I don’t know. As to what they should have done, I can’t answer that either, of course, but the fact that some had the blueprint for exactly what was going to happen, seemed like that was worth noting since everyone wondered how Israeli intelligence could have missed it entirely, in the immediate aftermath, in the days following 10/7. So, can’t say they weren’t warned, and warned in explicit detail, complete with Hamas training videos of how it would play out.
Maybe they viewed it as a good excuse to flatten Gaza and let it happen. Collateral damage.

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So I just got back from dropping her off at school. When I opened the garage door to leave this morning there was a worm in the driveway. She picked it up and went and put it in the flowerbed dirt so it wouldn't get hurt lol.
Odd thread to post it in but it sounds like you are doing a great job raising your kid. Kudos.
 
Odd thread to post it in but it sounds like you are doing a great job raising your kid. Kudos.
Thank you. I appreciate that

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Not easy reading….


“Israeli police have opened up the biggest investigation into sexual violence and crimes against women ever in the nation.

The leader of the investigation Shelly Harush said: “It’s clear now that sexual crimes were part of the planning and the purpose was to terrify and humiliate people."

Police have collected thousands of statements, photographs and video clips that have been called unbearable to watch from a mother's perspective and include “girls whose pelvises were broken they had been raped so much”.


 
The time for a comprehensive peace treaty and actual Palestinian statehood has long passed. The best chance for it was sometime between 1993 and 2000.

On the Israeli side, it was the last time there were anything resembling left-of-centre governments. The entire electorate has shifted to the right in the past 25-30 years. Part of it is that the religious, Haredi sector of the society has higher birthrates and has been proportionally growing in size. They have also been more politically active, after decades of only partial involvement in what they see as secular politics. I don't have to tell you how they feel about Palestinians or security issues in general. They also don't have to serve in the army, so hey, of course you'll support IDF operations.

Another part of this is the massive post-Soviet immigration to Israel. The country had 5 million people in 1990 and then proceeded to receive more than a million new immigrants from the former Soviet republics over the next decade. This population is largely secular with some not even being legally Jewish. They are fairly liberal on social issues, but hard-line on security stuff. To give you an indication of their political importance, at its peak in 2009, the largely Soviet immigrant-supported Yisrael Beiteinu party held an eight of all seats in the Knesset.

Finally, there has also been a general hardening of Israeli views on Palestinians and the peace process in the aftermath of the Second Intifada and all the violence of the last couple of decades. Until this recent Hamas rampage, there had also been a sense that Israel can keep a tight leash on both Gaza and the West Bank without much cost.

On the Palestinian side, the turn of the millennium was the last time there was a united leadership and some sense of political direction. Arafat both commanded the allegiance and respect of most Palestinians, and had enough credibility as a veteran of the struggle to be able to offer some concessions. Now you have what are essentially two Palestinian para-states with leaderships that fought a civil war. Neither are democratic in any sense. Hamas is Hamas, and Fatah seems to have lost all credibility among even the residents of the West Bank. Abu Mazen is 88 years old and hasn't allowed elections in almost 2 decades because Fatah would almost certainly lose them. His deputies and other close associates in the PLO are 70+ as well.

There's simple a sense of there not being anyone on either side willing or able to negotiate.
Accurate. Don't forget to mention that this left wing government's reign was impacted by the assassination of Yitzakh Rabin in 1995 by right-wing Israeli extremists that are now openly praised by members of Bibi's cabinet. Furthermore, the 2-state solution has since been rendered impossible due to the zeal with which the illegal settlement campaign that has proceeded in the West Bank. Unless one of you could show me a map of a two state solution that every Israeli wouldn't laugh and tear apart.

In addition, supporting this dividing of Palestinian leadership has been an openly-embraced strategy by the Israeli government, who has rightfully prioritized the annexation and engulfment of the West Bank. Of course, we now see the consequences of this hubris.

- George
 
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Sometimes, I wish I could be gentile just for a little bit, so I could be shocked and surprised at the existence of antisemitism and treat it as something novel and unusual. Must be nice.

It's very easy to look at all this out of context, like the last 1000 or so years of history didn't happen. Like antisemitism exists because of Israel and not the other way around. Israel exists because the rest of the humanity has proven itself utterly unable and/or unwilling to ensure the basic, physical protection Jewish people. Over and over and over again.

Calling for the destruction of the State of Israel as a Jewish state is antisemitism. It doesn't matter what form that takes. It doesn't matter what language you use. It doesn't matter if you cloak it in "decolonization" or "one-state solution" or "everyone should get along" or "a state where it doesn't matter if you're Jewish or Muslim." If the logical conclusion of your argument is that the Jews should not have their own, Jewish state, it's antisemitism.

And gentiles need to stop talking about what antisemitism is or isn't and need to stop trying to define it. Rashida Tlaib or the Queen of Jordan are not the arbiters of what antisemitism is, of who is a Jew, or of how Jews feel about the State of Israel. None of this is new. These are all well-known, tired anti-Jewish tropes and believe it or not, we've seen and heard them before.
1) Palestinians are not responsible for the Holocaust -- why are they bearing the burden for European crimes against humanity?
2) With this mindset, Zionists need to stop talking about what is and isn't colonization, or apartheid. Which -- perhaps this is fair to you! But in this discussion I want you to consider where do you fit in the voice of the Palestinian who had nothing to do with the concentration camps, and are now forcibly evicted with no right to return?
3) For the record, thousands of non-gentiles worldwide are risking their lives protesting against this apartheid regime and the tens of thousands of civilians they are murdering, because they are suspecting that tethering a religion to a genocidal regime is actually bad for a religious populace in the long-term.
4) Zionist Jews are also not the only arbiter of what is or isn't anti-Semitism. Is supporting right-wing Nazi governments who otherwise support Israel anti-Semitic? Do right wing Israeli movements knowingly worsen tensions for diasporic Jews worldwide in order to justify migration towards Israel -- and if so, is this anti-Semitic?
5) A nation's right to exist is weakened when it resorts to tens of thousands of murdered civilians in order to sustain it. Growingly, the global opinion is recognizing this as well. I suspect the response will be further commitment into war crimes.

- George
 
1) Palestinians are not responsible for the Holocaust -- why are they bearing the burden for European crimes against humanity?
2) With this mindset, Zionists need to stop talking about what is and isn't colonization, or apartheid. Which -- perhaps this is fair to you! But in this discussion I want you to consider where do you fit in the voice of the Palestinian who had nothing to do with the concentration camps, and are now forcibly evicted with no right to return?
3) For the record, thousands of non-gentiles worldwide are risking their lives protesting against this apartheid regime and the tens of thousands of civilians they are murdering, because they are suspecting that tethering a religion to a genocidal regime is actually bad for a religious populace in the long-term.
4) Zionist Jews are also not the only arbiter of what is or isn't anti-Semitism. Is supporting right-wing Nazi governments who otherwise support Israel anti-Semitic? Do right wing Israeli movements knowingly worsen tensions for diasporic Jews worldwide in order to justify migration towards Israel -- and if so, is this anti-Semitic?
5) A nation's right to exist is weakened when it resorts to tens of thousands of murdered civilians in order to sustain it. Growingly, the global opinion is recognizing this as well. I suspect the response will be further commitment into war crimes.

- George

Not to sound callous but this war in Gaza is a handy distraction for the crisis ridden Netanyahu government.
 
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