FalseFlagg K
Well-Known Member
yeah she's doing Don a big favour. Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Israel-Hamas War
- Thread starter Rubashov
- Start date
FalseFlagg K
Well-Known Member
So was in Melbourne Aust city on the weekend, as every other weekend a reasonable sized pro Palestinian rally was on. Watching TV and listening to the interview of the spokesperson it sounded all very reasonable a call for human rights Cool. But walking around trying to get to the show my family was going to there were quite a number of chants of "Alluha Akbar" and speeches leading to chants which very clearly were meaning eradicating Israel. And it wasn't subtle. First time that i've really seen ethnic hatred so clearly here. Very disturbing.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
Sometimes, I wish I could be gentile just for a little bit, so I could be shocked and surprised at the existence of antisemitism and treat it as something novel and unusual. Must be nice.
It's very easy to look at all this out of context, like the last 1000 or so years of history didn't happen. Like antisemitism exists because of Israel and not the other way around. Israel exists because the rest of the humanity has proven itself utterly unable and/or unwilling to ensure the basic, physical protection Jewish people. Over and over and over again.
Calling for the destruction of the State of Israel as a Jewish state is antisemitism. It doesn't matter what form that takes. It doesn't matter what language you use. It doesn't matter if you cloak it in "decolonization" or "one-state solution" or "everyone should get along" or "a state where it doesn't matter if you're Jewish or Muslim." If the logical conclusion of your argument is that the Jews should not have their own, Jewish state, it's antisemitism.
And gentiles need to stop talking about what antisemitism is or isn't and need to stop trying to define it. Rashida Tlaib or the Queen of Jordan are not the arbiters of what antisemitism is, of who is a Jew, or of how Jews feel about the State of Israel. None of this is new. These are all well-known, tired anti-Jewish tropes and believe it or not, we've seen and heard them before.
It's very easy to look at all this out of context, like the last 1000 or so years of history didn't happen. Like antisemitism exists because of Israel and not the other way around. Israel exists because the rest of the humanity has proven itself utterly unable and/or unwilling to ensure the basic, physical protection Jewish people. Over and over and over again.
Calling for the destruction of the State of Israel as a Jewish state is antisemitism. It doesn't matter what form that takes. It doesn't matter what language you use. It doesn't matter if you cloak it in "decolonization" or "one-state solution" or "everyone should get along" or "a state where it doesn't matter if you're Jewish or Muslim." If the logical conclusion of your argument is that the Jews should not have their own, Jewish state, it's antisemitism.
And gentiles need to stop talking about what antisemitism is or isn't and need to stop trying to define it. Rashida Tlaib or the Queen of Jordan are not the arbiters of what antisemitism is, of who is a Jew, or of how Jews feel about the State of Israel. None of this is new. These are all well-known, tired anti-Jewish tropes and believe it or not, we've seen and heard them before.
In S.F., hundreds join urgent gathering to support Israel at war
Hundreds of attendees packed the main sanctuary and balcony at Sherith Israel in S.F. on Sunday as the Jewish community held a solidarity event for Israel.
jweekly.com
Israeli and Palestinian supporters rally across U.S. as Israel declares war after Hamas attack
Supporters of Israel and backers of the Palestinian cause rallied in American cities including New York City, Atlanta and Chicago.
apnews.com
Harvard Affiliates Gather at Hillel to Show Support and Grieve Amid Invasion of Israel | News | The Harvard Crimson
More than 100 University affiliates attended a Harvard Hillel gathering Saturday afternoon to mourn the lives lost to a deadly invasion of Israel by the Islamist militant group Hamas and to offer support to those affected by the attacks.
Israel Solidarity Events - Jewish Community Relations Council
JCRC Bay Area is the largest collective voice of the Jewish community across San Francisco, the Peninsula, Marin, Sonoma, Napa, Alameda and Contra Costa Counties.
jcrc.org
The level of mendacity on your sources, and gullibility on your part, is astonishing. Where do you get your news from?
If the conclusion of my argument is that Israel needs to provide better services for territories it is occupying, is that antisemitism?
Fair enough, though there is disagreement among Jews on which positions are antisemitic.
Sardines
Well-Known Member
My understanding, and it could be wrong, is that Gaza is largely left to its own devices while the West Bank is "occupied" by Israel. Gaza, left to their own devices, launched a brutal surprise attack on Israel which seems mostly to have accomplished the goal of telling the Israelis that the Iron Dome is not going to protect you from everything. Now the Israelis seem to be of the opinion, at least their government, that if the Iron Dome can't protect them from Gaza as it was then Gaza is not going to be "that" anymore.
As I've stated, I think the attack on Oct. 7th was intended to provoke an overreaction from Israel. What may not have been intended was that Israel might just keep going well past the disproportionate response level and move on to the -- pardon the phrase which I have not used exactly, but -- ultimate solution level where they take all independence from Gaza and eradicate as much of Hamas as they can. I think that's the stated goal as outlined by Netanyahu.
This whole thing is ugly. It started with an absolutely abhorrent surprise attack on civilians going about their lives and has escalated to destruction of large parts of Gaza, with women and children not being off limits to Israel, either, when they feel legitimate targets have buried themselves amongst them.
One thing I will say as an American, Israel can handle this without us. We don't have to be a party to this. That doesn't mean condemning Israel, it doesn't mean supporting Hamas. It just means that this isn't about us, and we don't really need to make it about us.
Gaza has been blockaded since 2005, even before Hamas took over. That has severely limited its "devices".
Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia
That's a lot of people to be callous about.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Awwww.....did you find a hundred people? I don't consider 100 to be a mass gathering.In S.F., hundreds join urgent gathering to support Israel at war
Hundreds of attendees packed the main sanctuary and balcony at Sherith Israel in S.F. on Sunday as the Jewish community held a solidarity event for Israel.
Israeli and Palestinian supporters rally across U.S. as Israel declares war after Hamas attack
Supporters of Israel and backers of the Palestinian cause rallied in American cities including New York City, Atlanta and Chicago.
Harvard Affiliates Gather at Hillel to Show Support and Grieve Amid Invasion of Israel | News | The Harvard Crimson
More than 100 University affiliates attended a Harvard Hillel gathering Saturday afternoon to mourn the lives lost to a deadly invasion of Israel by the Islamist militant group Hamas and to offer support to those affected by the attacks.www.thecrimson.com
Israel Solidarity Events - Jewish Community Relations Council
JCRC Bay Area is the largest collective voice of the Jewish community across San Francisco, the Peninsula, Marin, Sonoma, Napa, Alameda and Contra Costa Counties.
The level of mendacity on your sources, and gullibility on your part, is astonishing. Where do you get your news from?
"Tens of thousands" (Washington DC)
‘No ceasefire, no votes’: tens of thousands attend pro-Palestinian rally in Washington DC
Protesters call on Biden to demand ceasefire in Israel-Gaza conflict and end military aid to Israel
www.theguardian.com
"Tens of thousands" (London)
Tens of thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters march in London as Israel-Hamas war roils the world
Tens of thousands of pro-Palestinian demonstrators are marching in London and other cities to demand Israel stop its bombardment of Gaza. Protesters gathered at London's Marble Arch before marching to the government district, Whitehall on Saturday.
apnews.com
"Hundreds of thousands" (Europe)
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Hundreds of thousands rally across cities to support Palestinians
Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators rallied in cities in Europe, the Middle East and Asia on Saturday to show support for the Palestinians as Israel's military widened its air and ground offensive on the Gaza Strip.
www.reuters.com
"10,000 people rallied" (Berlin in spite of it being illegal)
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
You mean Israel has border controls on the border with its neighbor like every other country on Earth??? How dare they! Let's ignore that Israel had issued thousands of work permits allowing Gaza residents into Israel every day to work. You know who didn't allow thousands of Gazans through every day? Egypt. I don't hear anyone complaining about Egypt because all of this is nothing but an excuse to hate Jews.,Gaza has been blockaded since 2005, even before Hamas took over. That has severely limited its "devices".
Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
That's a lot of people to be callous about.
Sardines
Well-Known Member
Okay, so Israel has basically locked the cat in the closet. That isn't the same as occupying and it isn't the same as letting Gaza do what they want. So I was wrong, but Gaza isn't really occupied, either.Gaza has been blockaded since 2005, even before Hamas took over. That has severely limited its "devices".
Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia
That's a lot of people to be callous about.
My response is NOT callus at all. This isn't an "I don't care what happens" it is an "I'm not in the shoes of any of them, I'm a far removed observer, both sides have blood on their hands." Most importantly it is me saying that Israel can do everything they want to do without us holding their hand and it's not out place to either hold their hand or scold them as if they are our subordinate. There is no right way for the U.S. to engage in this, so we should not engage in this.
That means that we don't need to give Israel any emergency aid to help them do this. It also means it doesn't matter because Israel has the means to do exactly what they want with or without emergency aid from us.
In the context of Israel's response in Gaza, do you believe it's antisemitic to question the killing of women and children and impending humanitarian crisis?
JimLes
Well-Known Member
Depends on what your proposed alternative is.