Its Time to Tank

[Handlogten's Heros]

Look... its been fun. Finding at least one good future piece in Lauri is great. We prolly one a game or two we shouldn't have... but its time to tank. Over the next couple weeks the trade market should get a bit more frothy. Whatever the best tank deal comes up is the deal we should do... whether its Mike, JC, Vando, KO.... or even yes... Lauri.

The timeline is still to try and be good in 2-3 years. If we could freeze Lauri and his contract and start it in 2 years then perfect. Whatever players we will have drafted would start to be winning players and we'd have a shot at getting some of the best of them. If you got a haul for Lauri (3 firsts) you have the ability to later trade for a player on his level with those picks... it is like freezing the asset. I'd try to trade Mike, JC, KO, Vando first... and only move Lauri if the yield for the other guys was terrible and only if the yield for Lauri was awesome.

The difference between a pick in the 6-8 range with the increased odds of landing top 4 is just so much better than getting the 12-15th pick. Winning those extra few games was great but does put us in a tough spot. So now a semi-drastic about face is required imo.

I don't buy the argument that we have too much young talent to tank... we have Lauri, Vando, Kessler, and sometimes Sexton that are young and contributing to winning basketball. Removing 2-3 of Conley, KO, JC, Vando (he's very easy to move and pretty replaceable later imo) makes us tankworthy and we can keep Lauri and build from there. Giving developing time to young players is the key to tanking.

One way or another its time to pull the plug. Its stupid the way the rules work and feels dirty but its time to get slimy.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Just play Sexton more and you will lose a lot.

 

[The Midnight]

Just play Sexton more and you will lose a lot.

When 99% of your predictions are wrong and you’re trying to hold onto that 1%….

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

When 99% of your predictions are wrong and you’re trying to hold onto that 1%….

Most of my predictions are looking right my man. People overreacted to small sample size hot start.

 

[HeatCheck]

Trade season really doesn't start until December in the NBA.

I would let them play out the rest of the month and see how it goes. If they go 1-5 over the next 6 games I can see trades start happening.

Hardy needs to do a better job too. In the 4th quarter last night Conley/Clarkson/Olynyk took 16 shots. Lauri took 2 shots. Nobody else took more than 1 shot including Beasley who has been their best 3 pt shooter. If Kelly Olynyk is your leading scorer you are not going to win alot of games.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I wonder if the Nets would do something like Sexton/Beasley for Ben Simmons.

At some point his trade value has to hit rockbottom and the Nets would be happy to get productive relatively young players for him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Just play Sexton more and you will lose a lot.

This will shock you but I agree. Swap out Conley or JC and ramp up Sexton (and THT) and you start to make up some ground. And whoever plays behind those guys is likely worse than them... so the downward (but actually upward) spiral continues.

 

[HeatCheck]

Just play Sexton more and you will lose a lot.

The obsession is starting to get weird now. Either you are a kid posting in your Mom's basement or you are an adult with some kind of latent sexual fantasies about Sexton.
Can't figure out which one.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I wonder if the Nets would do something like Sexton/Beasley for Ben Simmons.

At some point his trade value has to hit rockbottom and the Nets would be happy to get productive relatively young players for him.

Bruh Ben is broke AF. They would jump at the chance to do that deal. We should not be touching his contract unless it comes with a sweetner... but he'd be a great tank commander and maybe a miracle happens.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Trade season really doesn't start until December in the NBA.

I would let them play out the rest of the month and see how it goes. If they go 1-5 over the next 6 games I can see trades start happening.

Hardy needs to do a better job too. In the 4th quarter last night Conley/Clarkson/Olynyk took 16 shots. Lauri took 2 shots. Nobody else took more than 1 shot including Beasley who has been their best 3 pt shooter. If Kelly Olynyk is your leading scorer you are not going to win alot of games.

That's essentially what I said in the OP... trade season opens up over the next two weeks... nothing usually happens until 12/15 though when newly signed players can be moved.

All of the guys have improved their trade value and a doubt guys like JC/KO/Beasley/Conley do much in between now and the trade deadline to increase their value. Some additional opportunities may arise but how much additional value are you getting if any? Rip the bandaid off early as the hot start already put us well off pace with the tankers.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think Kyrie to Lakers possibility, plus Nets desperation to get functional players in may facilitate a three way where we can nab a Lakers pick maybe.... I think there is a chance Pelinka rides this out all year thinking that James is washed and a bigger rebuild is coming. The reason for them to do a win now deal is to salvage what is left of James and if he is showing signs of being washed then there is not much left to save.

I'd watch Nets situation cuz its more flammable by the day.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Also major lolz at suggesting trading for Ben Simmons. He is the last player I’d want to trade for.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Also major lolz at suggesting trading for Ben Simmons. He is the last player I’d want to trade for.

I get the idea in a vacuum... trade for undervalued player. His health is like 3-4 red flags and he likely doesn't even love basketball. Hes broken mentally and physically... I'm not saying the vibes have to be 100% immaculate but he's the opposite of immaculate vibes. I don't think that story has a happy ending.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Nah, I'm not on board the tank at all cost train anymore. When I thought we had a good chance at a bottom 3 record, that's what I wanted, but a bottom 8-10 record doesn't seem that great to me. I'd prefer to keep our guys and watch fun basketball this year unless we get really great offers for them.

With that said I don't think wins and losses are something to be too concerned about. I like the idea of trying to buy low on young guys that haven't worked out other places and see if we can find something that way.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Nah, I'm not on board the tank at all cost train anymore. When I thought we had a good chance at a bottom 3 record, that's what I wanted, but a bottom 8-10 record doesn't seem that great to me. I'd prefer to keep our guys and watch fun basketball this year unless we get really great offers for them.

With that said I don't think wins and losses are something to be too concerned about. I like the idea of trying to buy low on young guys that haven't worked out other places and see if we can find something that way.

6-8 range is the "goal" of tanking... allows you a real shot at moving to the top 4 and will put you in a higher draft tier than 12-16 (which is where I think we end up).

When thinking about this team... how many players on the current roster will be helping us win games in 2 years?

- Conley - nope
- KO - maybe but he already slow and ground bound... plus would need a new contract (which could be a trap)
- Lauri - Fo sho
- JC - Maybe but needs a new deal to do that
- Sexton - Prolly helpful but not amazing.
- Vando - Young but he's a third big and will hit FA.
- THT - FA by then... maybe?
- Kessler - Fo sho
- Ochai - He might suck
- Simone - I think so but also FA by then.

Like there is just so little to hold on to long term here.

 

[KqWIN]

Well, it was fun. For the foreseeable future the main discussion will be whining and complaining about why we don’t lose more. Not even saying that feeling isn’t justified, this is just the NBA these days. Don’t care to have that discussion for the millionth time either. The NBA is just a terrible sports league if you enjoy the sport.

 

[Hearsky]

When is the last time you ate creamed corn? I have to be going on 30 years.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

6-8 range is the "goal" of tanking... allows you a real shot at moving to the top 4 and will put you in a higher draft tier than 12-16 (which is where I think we end up).

When thinking about this team... how many players on the current roster will be helping us win games in 2 years?

- Conley - nope
- KO - maybe but he already slow and ground bound... plus would need a new contract (which could be a trap)
- Lauri - Fo sho
- JC - Maybe but needs a new deal to do that
- Sexton - Prolly helpful but not amazing.
- Vando - Young but he's a third big and will hit FA.
- THT - FA by then... maybe?
- Kessler - Fo sho
- Ochai - He might suck
- Simone - I think so but also FA by then.

Like there is just so little to hold on to long term here.

I don't really disagree with anything you are saying here, I'm just not that excited about a 6-8th worst record season. If we can't get anything that would bring back a future rotation piece, then just stick with what we have and play the season out, and hope for an exciting round or two of the playoffs.

To be more clear and specific, I'm cool with trading our win now players for first round picks or players that are young and have upside. I'm not cool with trading them for seconds and washed up/injured players just to lose more.

 

[stormkoopacv03]

How on earth do ppl come up with trading for Ben 'the broken' Simmons? Is your head broken? Dropped on the head? That dude is in another tier, way higher than Mitchell when it comes to being a drama queen. He wouldn't even consider coming to Utah, or even come near it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't really disagree with anything you are saying here, I'm just not that excited about a 6-8th worst record season. If we can't get anything that would bring back a future rotation piece, then just stick with what we have and play the season out, and hope for an exciting round or two of the playoffs.

To be more clear and specific, I'm cool with trading our win now players for first round picks or players that are young and have upside. I'm not cool with trading them for seconds and washed up/injured players just to lose more.

Makes sense. I just think we are closer to a mid team and some of our winning is predicated on some fool's gold and some stuff that won't fly in the playoffs. Like bench production... its nice but in the playoffs rotations shorten and it is less of an advantage. I just think we'd get bludgeoned in the playoffs and think some short term pain will yield real future help.

I'd rather not do something too nefarious as far as tank trades... but if there was an opportunity to move Mike for an expiring or get a first or a prospect for JC/Vando/KO... I'd do it... I think you could also do a deal like Beasley to the Hawks for Bogdonovic and the first they own from Sac (it has some normal lotto/top 10 protections). Bogdon may not be 100% this year and likely opts into his $18M for next year.