Its Time to Tank

[whatthe]

I'm honestly shocked more teams haven't tanked this year. With Wemby and Scoot I thought this would likely be the worst year for tanking ever.

The commissioner can take away picks. He put out a memo to not intentionally tank. So a million teams are just hanging around..

 

[HermanG]

I think we're only like a game out of 13th in the west. It's time.

And 2 games out of home court.

How crazy is West right now? Some seasons 26-23 and 23-26 is the difference between like 8th and 9th.. this year its the difference between 4th and 13th.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I don't think anyone wants to dump everybody.

Dump all the vets for picks to tank.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Dump all the vets for picks to tank.

Yeah, I know what you meant. Not many, if any, are advocating for every non-Lauri vet to get traded.

 

[fishonjazz]

What are people's plan for the next couple years after we tank this year, particularly those wanting to dump all our players for picks? Those picks aren't going to help us for quite awhile. Seems like if we go that route we should trade Lauri as well. Or are you wanting to tank this year then use lots of picks to trade for players next year?

Cant dump players for picks. Salary matching and all.
How do you think conley, gay, and KO will help the jazz in 2 years?
As for your last question, sure. Thats an option. Free agency is a thing as well. And some rookies help immediately. Kessler comes to mind. As does donovan mitchell.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Cant dump players for picks. Salary matching and all.
How do you think conley, gay, and KO will help the jazz in 2 years?
As for your last question, sure. Thats an option. Free agency is a thing as well. And some rookies help immediately. Kessler comes to mind. As does donovan mitchell.

Yes, you need players back but a lot of people are proposing salary dump players along with what picks they are saying is the prize in the trade along with making us worse to help our pick. Some rookies help a bit but you almost always sacrifice some level of winning to develop them especially when you are talking about a deep playoff run. You usually help with deep playoff runs as one of the main guys towards your prime not beginning.

Hence why my preference is to upgrade our roster with younger players we think can help and have an upside as opposed to trying to get more picks to add to our unprecedented amount of picks. But I also think there are multiple options there Jazz can pursue. I'm just curious what people with different proposals want the plan to be.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Yeah, I know what you meant. Not many, if any, are advocating for every non-Lauri vet to get traded.

I don't think there are many but there are some. That's why I'm asking.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

What are people's plan for the next couple years after we tank this year, particularly those wanting to dump all our players for picks? Those picks aren't going to help us for quite awhile. Seems like if we go that route we should trade Lauri as well. Or are you wanting to tank this year then use lots of picks to trade for players next year?

I mean its not super hard... We don't have to dump everyone... for example I'd say you keep JC unless you get a great offer. I think at this point I'd take back a minor asset for Conley/Gay/KO package if it meant we got an expiring salary. With that cap space you sign guys in the offseason or trade for guys that can benefit the team next year and in the medium term future. Beasley and Vando I'd be comfortable moving for some picks too. I bet we only do one trade... but even if we dumped Mike/KO/Gay/Beasley/Vando and didn't take back a player that will be on the roster next year you still have:

Building blocks
JC
Lauri
Kessler
Sexton

Young dev players
Ochai
Simone
3 first round picks

Other youngish vet rotation pieces
NAW
THT

With like 40M in space you can fill in the gaps with younger players that can play now fairly easily. Also leaves you development time. That's 11 roster spots already.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Cant dump players for picks. Salary matching and all.
How do you think conley, gay, and KO will help the jazz in 2 years?
As for your last question, sure. Thats an option. Free agency is a thing as well. And some rookies help immediately. Kessler comes to mind. As does donovan mitchell.

Also the higher you pick the better chance you have of getting a guy ready to play.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I also like that OKC has already risen out of the tanking ranks and likely makes the play in… did it in 3 years and without the benefit of their most recent lotto prospect while also stacking the deck with picks and simultaneously building a great reputation among vets like CP and Horford.

 

[Coach Ellis]

I also like that OKC has already risen out of the tanking ranks and likely makes the play in… did it in 3 years and without the benefit of their most recent lotto prospect while also stacking the deck with picks and simultaneously building a great reputation among vets like CP and Horford.

Yeah. OKC is the preferred model - not Houston or Orlando - who has talent, but always seems at the bottom of the standings - it would get old after 2 seasons.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I also like that OKC has already risen out of the tanking ranks and likely makes the play in… did it in 3 years and without the benefit of their most recent lotto prospect while also stacking the deck with picks and simultaneously building a great reputation among vets like CP and Horford.

J Williams is benefiting them tho. Wish we had him instead of Ochai, tho Ochai is looking better. (yes I know what you mean)

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah. OKC is the preferred model - not Houston or Orlando - who has talent, but always seems at the bottom of the standings - it would get old after 2 seasons.

IDK… once Orlando actually pulled the plug the process has been pretty fruitful. That team is playing really well now.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah. OKC is the preferred model - not Houston or Orlando - who has talent, but always seems at the bottom of the standings - it would get old after 2 seasons.

Also we have the option to get a big part of the benefit of tanking this year while only having the pain for 30 games (and honestly it won’t be that painful). It’s malpractice not to tank.

 

[Jaanipoeg]

I mean its not super hard... We don't have to dump everyone... for example I'd say you keep JC unless you get a great offer. I think at this point I'd take back a minor asset for Conley/Gay/KO package if it meant we got an expiring salary. With that cap space you sign guys in the offseason or trade for guys that can benefit the team next year and in the medium term future. Beasley and Vando I'd be comfortable moving for some picks too. I bet we only do one trade... but even if we dumped Mike/KO/Gay/Beasley/Vando and didn't take back a player that will be on the roster next year you still have:

Building blocks
JC
Lauri
Kessler
Sexton

Young dev players
Ochai
Simone
3 first round picks

Other youngish vet rotation pieces
NAW
THT

With like 40M in space you can fill in the gaps with younger players that can play now fairly easily. Also leaves you development time. That's 11 roster spots already.

I get that he is an NBA rookie, but Simone is already 27, I think "young dev player" is a bit optimistic.

NAW is expiring this season sadly, so we'll have to see if he's still on the roster next season. Hard to see him shoot a by far career best 62% TS after a career of inefficiency and get buried on the bench.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I get that he is an NBA rookie, but Simone is already 27, I think "young dev player" is a bit optimistic.

NAW is expiring this season sadly, so we'll have to see if he's still on the roster next season. Hard to see him shoot a by far career best 62% TS after a career of inefficiency and get buried on the bench.

We could easily retain NAW though. Simone yeah young isn't great but he needs to develop his NBA game or just learn the game. He could contribute for us. Just saying... you sign a couple middling FAs and you can round out the roster well enough.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Wouldnt be shocked if Simone ask out of his contract to return to Europe. HE's just getting 0 run.

 

[LogGrad98]

Wouldnt be shocked if Simone ask out of his contract to return to Europe. HE's just getting 0 run.

Frankly he probably should. I wish we would play him more. Strikes me he could be good if given a better chance at it.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Wouldnt be shocked if Simone ask out of his contract to return to Europe. HE's just getting 0 run.

I could be wrong but I thought I heard the salary he was going to make in the NBA was extremely enticing. I bet he gets paid a lot more in the NBA than the league he was in.

 

[fishonjazz]

I mean its not super hard... We don't have to dump everyone... for example I'd say you keep JC unless you get a great offer. I think at this point I'd take back a minor asset for Conley/Gay/KO package if it meant we got an expiring salary. With that cap space you sign guys in the offseason or trade for guys that can benefit the team next year and in the medium term future. Beasley and Vando I'd be comfortable moving for some picks too. I bet we only do one trade... but even if we dumped Mike/KO/Gay/Beasley/Vando and didn't take back a player that will be on the roster next year you still have:

Building blocks
JC
Lauri
Kessler
Sexton

Young dev players
Ochai
Simone
3 first round picks

Other youngish vet rotation pieces
NAW
THT

With like 40M in space you can fill in the gaps with younger players that can play now fairly easily. Also leaves you development time. That's 11 roster spots already.

This. Great post. I would love to go into next off season like that. Add a few good free agents and draft well and we are going to the playoffs with guys who will actually be here in a few years when we are truly trying to contend.