THT agreeing to sit out kind of hints he's going to opt in and that him and the FO are on the same page? IF I was thinking about opting out no way would I pass up on an opportunity to put up numbers on a tanking team.
Its Time to Tank
- Thread starter Handlogten's Heros
- Start date
HermanG
Well-Known Member
Its sort of weird since I dont know if he is guaranteed as many minutes with us next year so best $$$ move would likely be to opt out and get the next bag based on this years play.
But I do agree it doesnt make sense for him to sit if he is about to decline and find a long-term deal now.
Handlogten's Heros
Well-Known Member
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We tried pretty hard but didn't get grimy enough. The sacramento and Boston games are a couple that stand out but there were like 2-3 close games we should have lost but pulled out a win... wonder if we appeal to the league if we can get those wins expunged from our record.
Sure, it is because players don’t tank and we couldn’t start sitting guys with 15 games left. Lauri fought back against sitting as well.
Eddie Zero
Well-Known Member
Love how people keep convincing themself this org was ever really trying to tank even after all the trades, it never happened until the Finnisher got hurt, and they threw in the towel.
We have def been tanking these last 4, so maybe if lucky nobody 10-14 will jump over us, thats about it.
Having the 9 pretty much locked up and maybe the Wolves pick if the lose out could be enough ammo to move up a couple spots for Hawkins. wink wink
We have def been tanking these last 4, so maybe if lucky nobody 10-14 will jump over us, thats about it.
Having the 9 pretty much locked up and maybe the Wolves pick if the lose out could be enough ammo to move up a couple spots for Hawkins. wink wink
Wonder why this narrative keeps going?
We're three games out of a tie for with Portland 5th/6th as it stands. And you can almost guarantee that there was no way that Portland would have beaten us if we weren't on an overconfidence high from having just beaten the Celts and Kings. (Effectively, we should have gone 2-1 against the Celts/Kings/Blazers; we went 1-2, a 1 game difference) So that makes it effectively probably even 4 more games we'd have needed to lose to even bring us into a tie for 5th/6th.
And as I've argued before, we've both won and lost our share of close games this year. It only looks unfortunate for tanking purposes that we won some close games, but everyone seems to take our close losses for granted.
According to B-Ref, we should have won 38 rather than 36 games so far based on Pythagorean Wins (which would put us with the 9th from the bottom according to that metric as well). It's the Wolves that we should be bemoaning (they're 10th in PWs) for having won too many close ones. We're right where we deserve to be based on how we played.
I love how you keeping acting like the Conley, Beasley and Vandy trade wasn't pure tank. The problem is that THT stepped up and played better than Conley and Ochai stepped up and played better than Beasley. Then you add a 10 day contract in Kris Dunn that has played out of his mind and looked like every bit of the top 5 pick that he was.
Eddie Zero
Well-Known Member
Ok, so getting rid of current rotaion players at the time of the deadline, that they clearly had no interest in retaining past this season, were only traded to tank?
I don't agree with that at all, because if they were tanking really tanking they would not have kept playing THT after he stepped up, and would have benched Ochai . It makes no sense to assume they would not have benched both of them had they really wanted to intentionally lose.
Not surprised you don't understand the business though, most on here just think DA is making all these moves for tanking, yet almost everything he has done is to get other teams picks now and down the road that he could use as trade chips to either move up ( since they didn't tank) or trade the F out of the draft for win sooner vets that are cheaper and not due for some payday they don't deserve.
HermanG
Well-Known Member
I get it that there were tanking motivations behind the trade but it was far from "pure tank". Drop from Beasley to Ochai and Vando to Jones wasnt significant and we had a logjam of guards behind Conley (at that point they were also all healthy).
I said at the time that development and cap were the main reasons for the trade and that we didnt do enough to tank properly and it looks like a pretty good statement also in hindsight.
‘Tank lite’ is the term you’re looking for.
The term ‘tank lite’ should end all tanking disagreements amongst fans.
Tankers are upset as we only got to 9h worst.. so we didn’t really tank.
Non-tankers are upset since we didn’t make the playoffs, or even the play in… so we weren’t really playing to win.
No one wins.
Everyone loses.
Somewhere Ainge is grinning with joy.
Tankers are upset as we only got to 9h worst.. so we didn’t really tank.
Non-tankers are upset since we didn’t make the playoffs, or even the play in… so we weren’t really playing to win.
No one wins.
Everyone loses.
Somewhere Ainge is grinning with joy.
Quite the opposite. I the the pro-tank fans are extremely happy we managed to get to 9th and possibly tied for 8th. The two worst outcomes would have been making the playoffs as the 7/8 and losing in the first round and the worst would be losing in the play-in tournament.
Eddie Zero
Well-Known Member
The best case was always us making the playoff and the Wolves gifting us a high lottery pick. When that didn't happen the lesser or 2 evils was the prize.
Yeah but we could have not tank-lite and just tanked a few more games we could have easily gotten to the 5th pick at least.
But we didn’t tank.
We tank-lite.
The Jazz tanked in the sense that they got rid of key players who helped them win games. Then they effectively shut down Clarkson and Sexton with 15 or so games to go. However, the players that were active played hard and played to win.
This year was very unusual because teams were bunched together so tightly in the standings. From a tanking perspective, the Jazz could lose a handful of games within a span of 2 weeks and drop from the 5th seed down to the 11th seed. Only the most minimal tanking was required to get a top-10 pick this year. As it turned out, the Jazz had a few flukey wins over teams like Boston, Sacramento and OKC that I'm sure Ainge would have preferred to lose. Just a few more losses, and the Jazz would be looking at a top 6 or 7 pick, which would all but ensure getting Walker, Whitmore or a Thompson.
I'm guessing the Jazz would like to be sitting where the Blazers are, but Portland beat us to the punch when they shut down Dame.
This year was very unusual because teams were bunched together so tightly in the standings. From a tanking perspective, the Jazz could lose a handful of games within a span of 2 weeks and drop from the 5th seed down to the 11th seed. Only the most minimal tanking was required to get a top-10 pick this year. As it turned out, the Jazz had a few flukey wins over teams like Boston, Sacramento and OKC that I'm sure Ainge would have preferred to lose. Just a few more losses, and the Jazz would be looking at a top 6 or 7 pick, which would all but ensure getting Walker, Whitmore or a Thompson.
I'm guessing the Jazz would like to be sitting where the Blazers are, but Portland beat us to the punch when they shut down Dame.
I’m still scratching my head as to why Ainge didn't do what Portland did.
A few more games ain't gonna make any of our players that much better next year.
So is it pride?
Is it not wanting to draw negative attention to ourselves?
Not wanting to skirt the NBA tanking rules?
What is it?
Jazz's players are scrappy, some of them are trying to prove they belong in the league, and they're well coached. Even so, the Jazz had a few of these close wins that they weren't supposed to have. Ainge probably didn't think the Jazz would beat some of the teams they did (e.g., Celtics, Kings, Thunder, Magic, etc.). However, I think the short answer is probably Walker Kessler. He had a bigger impact on winning games and raising the team's floor than people expected.
The fact that the Jazz lost to the Spurs twice this year shows they were trying to rack up the Ls.
homeytennis
Well-Known Member
I wonder if the signings that last two days indicate that Ainge is willing to use the draft picks and some players to trade for a star. A tell might be how many minutes Potter and Juzang get today. I get the sense that the front office views them as non-prospects at the moment.