Jackpotting Around Podcast: Episode 49 - Walker Kessler Injury Fallout and Listener Mailbag

[Handlogten's Heros]

Maybe if the GM gets fired, but the coach will probably take the blame first. Then new coach gets a chance with Bane etc....and if it still doesn't work they still need a player just like Bane in theory. With Suggs they have Black waiting in the wings, and Corey Joseph is still available.

Probably right but lol at CoJo... I'm sure that was a joke.

I think it may depend on what the offers would be for either guy. I think they may need a coaching change though. The offense looks exactly the same when I've watched. I think either way its a situation to monitor. Suggs or Bane could be guys to target.

 

[KqWIN]

Interesting. Though I wonder how Cody is a positive on offense.

Just luck at this point, he's only played 97 minutes. We've been really good in those minutes though.

 

[KqWIN]

Probably right but lol at CoJo... I'm sure that was a joke.

I think it may depend on what the offers would be for either guy. I think they may need a coaching change though. The offense looks exactly the same when I've watched. I think either way its a situation to monitor. Suggs or Bane could be guys to target.

I like Suggs better as a target anyways. It's still too early to shape out the roster, but it's looking like our backcourt will need to include an elite on ball player and an elite defensive player. Suggs is at least one of those players when healthy, Bane is neither IMO. I also think there's a slight chance Suggs is much better on offense than he looks due to the Orlando stink.

 

[KqWIN]

Cut the Svi minutes. Shift the Love minutes back to Taylor when he is back. Stop playing Lauri 36 minutes a night. Strategic rest. We can still get bottom 5 but not by just "letting the losses come". You must chase the losses lol.

Competition is stiff this year with many unexpected contenders. I think bottom 5 is not unrealistic, but I'm not sure I'd say it's likely either. It would represent one of the better tanking outcomes....and the unfortunate part about that is that it likely requires Lauri to miss a lot of games.

Having said that....I just know that despite what AA had said and hard Willy's tougher stance on young players that we will start doing more "tanky" things down the line. And once we do those things, we will be asking ourselves why it didn't start earlier.

 

[homeytennis]

I sense many contusions and strains are in certain Jazz player's future.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Awful Hardy takes. He's an elite coach

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Brice, after being benched for a handful of games, has played harder and smarter than he ever has.

That's Hardy. That's Svi setting a bar for minutes.

Of course the young rookie contract players are going to be coached harder. They are trying to develop them.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I do think the Clarkson double standard last year was bad.

But I'm not seeing that this year at all. Svi is playing high quality basketball from a decision making angle, and he's making his shots.

 

[Zombie]

Awful Hardy takes. He's an elite coach

I think he deserves some of the credit for Lauri's offensive explosion this season for sure. It's not like Lauri's out here creating these shots for himself. This coaching staff has also been better at player development than people think imo.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think he deserves some of the credit for Lauri's offensive explosion this season for sure. It's not like Lauri's out here creating these shots for himself. This coaching staff has also been better at player development than people think imo.

The offensive system is elite for what we have.

Also why wanting to add Trae Young is ludicrous. Trae does not fit this team at all.

I think Sabonis could because he can be a big man hub and fit in offensively, and defensively he is better than Nurkic

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Brice, after being benched for a handful of games, has played harder and smarter than he ever has.

That's Hardy. That's Svi setting a bar for minutes.

Of course the young rookie contract players are going to be coached harder. They are trying to develop them.

The origins of the Keyonte improvements we've seen started by getting sent to the bench last year. There's definitely a balance you have to have, but I think Will is generally doing a good job.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The origins of the Keyonte improvements we've seen started by getting sent to the bench last year. There's definitely a balance you have to have, but I think Will is generally doing a good job.

Yup, the bench does motivate players. When you have unlimited opportunities you are naturally going to take each opportunity less seriously. Players have to have some urgency in respect to their minutes and standing in the NBA.

I'm not seeing Hardy yank guys because they miss shots. When guys get yanked it's because they didn't put in effort on a play.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Awful Hardy takes. He's an elite coach

Ehhh... I could do a whole podcast on Hardy. I think he's a good coach at many good coaching things. I want to see how the rest of the season plays out, but I think he is just really trying to win games mostly and then spinning it to fit the development agenda. The items aren't mutually exclusive. If he now shows an increase in patience and toggling minutes more towards the younger guys then I see the vision.

He's had double standards with vets before. The rotation stuff has always had some questions. I think the defensive stuff is a legit concern as well.

 

[KqWIN]

The problem with this development standard is that you really can't prove it one way or another, and it's probably different for different players. You can craft any narrative you want about what led to more development, but at the end of the day you can't prove what caused what. You could say the benching is exactly what made Brice play better, or you could say Brice was already this good and he would have gotten here anyways with more playing time. Personally, I don't even think Brice was playing that bad to begin with. We didn't bench Ace who was playing worse and Ace got better. There's just no way of knowing what would have happened if the alternative was true.

Wrt Svi getting minutes is that I never for once cared that he didn't get minutes prior and I don't see a reason why I should suddenly switch my tone on that. If you think Hardy is doing a good thing this year for development, you must also say that he did a bad thing last year for development whenever he just let the guys play. You can decide for yourself which method is better, and it's not entirely black/white, but you just can't have it both ways. Generally, I don't think our players need more discipline and motivation. I think they need more reps and opportunities to learn the game and being allowed to play through mistakes has led to good development.

And of course, there are other incentives beyond development as to why you play some players and not others. think you're being obtuse if you think this is entirely about development....I do think he simply just wants to win the game.

You also cannot deny his history of having clear favorites and it's history that does not indicate a preference for what people seem to be saying it does. I cannot look at his preference for Clarkson, for example, and say with a straight face that Hardy is all about playing the right way.

 

[fishonjazz]

Cut the Svi minutes. Shift the Love minutes back to Taylor when he is back. Stop playing Lauri 36 minutes a night. Strategic rest. We can still get bottom 5 but not by just "letting the losses come". You must chase the losses lol.

Have collier take the big threes at the end of games instead of key and Lauri

 

[SoberasHotRod]

The problem with this development standard is that you really can't prove it one way or another, and it's probably different for different players. You can craft any narrative you want about what led to more development, but at the end of the day you can't prove what caused what. You could say the benching is exactly what made Brice play better, or you could say Brice was already this good and he would have gotten here anyways with more playing time. Personally, I don't even think Brice was playing that bad to begin with. We didn't bench Ace who was playing worse and Ace got better. There's just no way of knowing what would have happened if the alternative was true.

Wrt Svi getting minutes is that I never for once cared that he didn't get minutes prior and I don't see a reason why I should suddenly switch my tone on that. If you think Hardy is doing a good thing this year for development, you must also say that he did a bad thing last year for development whenever he just let the guys play. You can decide for yourself which method is better, and it's not entirely black/white, but you just can't have it both ways. Generally, I don't think our players need more discipline and motivation. I think they need more reps and opportunities to learn the game and being allowed to play through mistakes has led to good development.

And of course, there are other incentives beyond development as to why you play some players and not others. think you're being obtuse if you think this is entirely about development....I do think he simply just wants to win the game.

You also cannot deny his history of having clear favorites and it's history that does not indicate a preference for what people seem to be saying it does. I cannot look at his preference for Clarkson, for example, and say with a straight face that Hardy is all about playing the right way.

Do you think players should be required to play hard in order to get playing time?

THIS YEAR Hardy has done a good job of holding players accountable to playing hard. I would agree that in previous years this wasn't the case, however, Hardy had different priorities, specifically last year.

FWIW, if Brice plays hard he should definitely get minutes over Svi.

 

[KqWIN]

Do you think players should be required to play hard in order to get playing time?

THIS YEAR Hardy has done a good job of holding players accountable to playing hard. I would agree that in previous years this wasn't the case, however, Hardy had different priorities, specifically last year.

FWIW, if Brice plays hard he should definitely get minutes over Svi.

Well, I'm sure I can think of situations where a player should get time even if he's not playing as hard as his counterpoint. But I also don't think that accurately reflects what's going on here. Like I said earlier, I don't think the general issue with our prospects is lack of discipline or effort. And I don't think the way minutes have been aligned in a way that's all about "accountability".

But anyways....I think it's totally fine if you feel that way about development. Like I said, no real way to prove what is good and what is not. I just think there should be some logical consistency in how we view things. So if you like what's happening now you gotta acknowledge that last year was bad or vice versa. It's the acknowledgement that shows you've at least thought about and considered the pros and cons. I think some people just blindly consider everything the Jazz do to be all good or all bad.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't like bigs that can't defend at a high level. I think it's very difficult to have a good team defense without a good defensive big.

I could be wrong, but this is my general gut reaction whenever there is talk about acquiring a poor defensive big. Maybe I've been emotionally scarred by the Boozer/Okur duo.

Those teams never had a chance to seriously contend because they couldn’t protect the rim at all, so I guess I’m right there with you.

With how spread the game is now, it means that your center being a great defensive player is all the more important because 4s can’t help as much on that end as they used to be positioned to.

I am 1000% out on Sabonis. You gotta almost be Jokic-level on the non-defensive part of the game to make up for providing 0 rim protection.

The Pacers thank god every day that the Kings organization exists.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

FWIW, multiple things can be true at the same time. Will Hardy can be playing to win games, but him playing to win games can also be good for player development by holding players accountable to playing winning basketball (moving the ball, getting back in transition, being in the right place on offense and defense, giving multiple efforts, etc.).

Ideally with where the Jazz are at there would be a much larger leash for developing players vs vet players, so I understand that argument, but I also don't think he's being too unreasonable. Brice is a great example of someone who didn't play because he wasn't playing hard, but fairly quickly got more opportunities.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

FWIW, multiple things can be true at the same time. Will Hardy can be playing to win games, but him playing to win games can also be good for player development by holding players accountable to playing winning basketball (moving the ball, getting back in transition, being in the right place on offense and defense, giving multiple efforts, etc.).

Ideally with where the Jazz are at there would be a much larger leash for developing players vs vet players, so I understand that argument, but I also don't think he's being too unreasonable. Brice is a great example of someone who didn't play because he wasn't playing hard, but fairly quickly got more opportunities.

I think the issue becomes with the seemingly arbitrary nature to Hardy's leash for certain players. I'm sure like all of us he has his pet peeves. I also don't necessarily get the narrative that Brice wasn't playing hard. All his activity stats clear Svi's. He may not have executed something crucial to the game plan or something... and that landed him with a couple DNPs. How is he supposed to be better at executing the game plan without some nba minutes? He was awful when he came back... so after a few games of playing he found a groove again. I'm just not sure you can point to that and say "see it worked".

I just think there is a balance. Like Svi shouldn't be third on the team in minutes, but he should be in the rotation if you are trying to play competent basketball. If the tough love was the DNPs and then he's more liberal from here on out with Brice... then I'm 100% fine with it and get it. If he continues to have the short leash... I think its more about winning games and calling that development.

I just don't want to wait until March to get the development tank minutes in. Cody/Brice/Taylor (when healthy) need to play every game for multiple reasons.