Game Thread Jan 21, 2021 8:00PM MT (TNT): Jazz vs. Pelicans

[whatthe]

I'm just gonna say that I think Kenny's analysis was quite good, as usual. Says a superstar brings 3 of the 6 most important attributes to the game every single night, while an all-star maybe brings two:

-scoring
-creating for others (assists)
-rebounding
-defense
-leadership
-controlling the pace of the game

I don't know exactly how true that assessment is, but I do think it's weird that Donovan has only had two games in his NBA career with a double-digit number of anything besides points. Really wish he was a much better defender cuz he should be, but I'm not sure how much of his assist numbers come from selfishness as much as a lack of acumen (currently, I hope this aspect develops a lot in the next two years).

I would counter that the team is well built so that we don't need all of that. But we do need Mitchell's alpha scoring ability which is the rarest trait. We have multiple ball handlers so I don't think assists are all that important. We have bigs that handle the rebounding. And Rudy's defense is his biggest trait so that doesn't need to be mind warping. But yes, leadership, controlling the pace and alpha scoring is what we need to from Mitchell.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm just gonna say that I think Kenny's analysis was quite good, as usual. Says a superstar brings 3 of the 6 most important attributes to the game every single night, while an all-star maybe brings two:

-scoring
-creating for others (assists)
-rebounding
-defense
-leadership
-controlling the pace of the game

I don't know exactly how true that assessment is, but I do think it's weird that Donovan has only had two games in his NBA career with a double-digit number of anything besides points. Really wish he was a much better defender cuz he should be, but I'm not sure how much of his assist numbers come from selfishness as much as a lack of acumen (currently, I hope this aspect develops a lot in the next two years).

Originally he said like 4 ways... then listed six... said you need 2 of the 4 or 4 of 6... It was off the top of his head. I would not take it to heart.

Even within scoring there are many nuances. Are Klay Thompsons 20 points equal to Demar Derozan?

The general tone of "DM needs to do more than score" is fine but it wasn't articulated well imo. He does a little bit of that stuff and likely can improve... He doesn't have the shut down defense of Kawhi or the mega creation that Lebron has, but I also don't think he's one dimensional. He can create for himself and others at volume and has tremendous off ball value... those are super valuable. He's a good leader (improving imo). He could be a good defender... he shows flashes. He isn't good enough to will his team to a title by himself but in this era neither is Lebron. I think he can be good enough to be the best primary offensive player on a title team and that if he has someone as good or slightly better than he is overall that he can win a title.

Kenny is the best "analyst" on the show... Ernie is a great host...Chuck is funny as hell... Shaq is a cringy cheeseball that wants to go viral. Adam Leffkoe had an interview where he talked about how he's consumed by it... its why he takes the cheap one liner shots at guys. He got his viral moment... congrats everyone saw you being a stank *** ho.

 

[JazzFever]

I'm just gonna say that I think Kenny's analysis was quite good, as usual. Says a superstar brings 3 of the 6 most important attributes to the game every single night, while an all-star maybe brings two:

-scoring
-creating for others (assists)
-rebounding
-defense
-leadership
-controlling the pace of the game

I don't know exactly how true that assessment is, but I do think it's weird that Donovan has only had two games in his NBA career with a double-digit number of anything besides points. Really wish he was a much better defender cuz he should be, but I'm not sure how much of his assist numbers come from selfishness as much as a lack of acumen (currently, I hope this aspect develops a lot in the next two years).

Thing is, Donovan isn't being coached to crash the boards- we've seen that he can, when he tries, but he has great rebounders under the basket and we want pace, which means being down the floor if possible. Westbrook piled up stats because he was ball dominant and the bigs stepped out of his way, Donovan is still a part-time PG and the team doesn't want him on the glass. He's not ever going to collect a bunch of triple-doubles playing in this system and with these teammates.

We have seen his passing progress, but its been a challenge for him to do without piling on turnovers. That will come and we'll see plenty of double digit assist nights in the future, and I think he'll end up with a better playoff record than Russ.

 

[infection]

Thing is, Donovan isn't being coached to crash the boards- we've seen that he can, when he tries, but he has great rebounders under the basket and we want pace, which means being down the floor if possible. Westbrook piled up stats because he was ball dominant and the bigs stepped out of his way, Donovan is still a part-time PG and the team doesn't want him on the glass. He's not ever going to collect a bunch of triple-doubles playing in this system and with these teammates.

We have seen his passing progress, but its been a challenge for him to do without piling on turnovers. That will come and we'll see plenty of double digit assist nights in the future, and I think he'll end up with a better playoff record than Russ.

The thing is, the guys who will do those things but have their teams lose, they’ll go to bat for them.

Last night someone commented (Reggie? I can’t remember) about how we’re not in the top discussion with the LA teams because we blew a 3-1 lead against Denver.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I would counter that the team is well built so that we don't need all of that. But we do need Mitchell's alpha scoring ability which is the rarest trait. We have multiple ball handlers so I don't think assists are all that important. We have bigs that handle the rebounding. And Rudy's defense is his biggest trait so that doesn't need to be mind warping. But yes, leadership, controlling the pace and alpha scoring is what we need to from Mitchell.

You're not wrong about most of that, but I would say that given how weak the Jazz's perimeter defense often is, there is plenty of need and room for improvement from such an elite physical specimen for a guard and who came into the league billed as a defensive force. I think it's simply focus and effort, and I'll settle for him picking up the intensity more often when possessions matter more (end of game situations, key matchups, etc.).

Also, if he could convert his wild, terrible turnovers into assists, I don't think getting to double digits (a somewhat arbitrary threshold, sure) would be that rare. While stat-padding shouldn't be his goal, it is legitimately stunning that a player with his usage rate has only gotten double-digit assists once in >3 seasons.

 

[framer]

I'm just gonna say that I think Kenny's analysis was quite good, as usual. Says a superstar brings 3 of the 6 most important attributes to the game every single night, while an all-star maybe brings two:

-scoring
-creating for others (assists)
-rebounding
-defense
-leadership
-controlling the pace of the game

I don't know exactly how true that assessment is, but I do think it's weird that Donovan has only had two games in his NBA career with a double-digit number of anything besides points. Really wish he was a much better defender cuz he should be, but I'm not sure how much of his assist numbers come from selfishness as much as a lack of acumen (currently, I hope this aspect develops a lot in the next two years).

I would also argue that Mitchell's "gravity" creates shots for others. Jazz take a lot of open threes, often because of a cascading imbalance because of the fear of Donovan driving. It's the same stuff you would get from Tony Parker, wen he would drive and it would suck the entire defense away from the three point line. Donovan drives, kicks out to the perimeter, player makes one more pass to an open three. The second player gets the assist, but Donny created the shot.

Ultimately the biggest knock on Donovan is that he doesn't go to the line enough. Mainly because he doesn't foul bait in a comical fashion.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I also think the if the Jazz play with consistent effort and focus, they're actually a nightmare matchup for the Clippers:
-Clippers are known to have scant intangibles like chemistry or leadership. Kawhi is the most aloof superstar ever and PG is a paper tiger.
-Ibaka gives them an element they didn't have last year, but he's not a reliable shooter and Zubac doesn't shoot at all.
-They play two tiny guards also.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Mainly because he doesn't foul bait in a comical fashion.

I'm torn on this. I think refs should give these types the benefit of the doubt more often but officials have gotten even worse at making calls based on reactions instead of what they actually see. Its so effective but its not fun to watch at all. I think I'd like to see him get to the line a little more but I don't want anything approaching the James Harden or Trae Young level of BS.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Shaq is universally getting destroyed by everyone. Like bad. What a weird *** question and it’s a bad attempt to try to stay relevant. Reeks of insecurities.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I'm torn on this. I think refs should give these types the benefit of the doubt more often but officials have gotten even worse at making calls based on reactions instead of what they actually see. Its so effective but its not fun to watch at all. I think I'd like to see him get to the line a little more but I don't want anything approaching the James Harden or Trae Young level of BS.

I kinda don't care as long as foul-seeking and the accompanying theatrics don't supersede playing actually good basketball (i.e. throwing up terrible shots on the assumption there will be a whistle, crashing to the floor on the assumption there will be a whistle, spending game-time working the refs while the other team runs a fast break, etc.).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I would counter that the team is well built so that we don't need all of that. But we do need Mitchell's alpha scoring ability which is the rarest trait. We have multiple ball handlers so I don't think assists are all that important. We have bigs that handle the rebounding. And Rudy's defense is his biggest trait so that doesn't need to be mind warping. But yes, leadership, controlling the pace and alpha scoring is what we need to from Mitchell.

Its also funny that these same assholes will kill Rudy for scoring 11 points a game and doing 3 or 4 things that aren't scoring that will help you win. We can't take these guys seriously at all... they will change the narrative based on what they had for lunch. They aren't consistent in what they praise or criticize.

It crosses a line when you take a kid who was the star of the game... and then make it about you trying to motivate them. Its just weird. DM did really well with his response... he's getting praise from a lot of different areas for not biting on Shaq's BS. Shaq is 0-2 trying to start **** with us... he best not come at the GOAT doe cuz Joe Ingles has a sharp tongue.

 

[JazzFever]

I also think the if the Jazz play with consistent effort and focus, they're actually a nightmare matchup for the Clippers:
-Clippers are known to have little intangible chemistry or leadership. Kawhi is the most aloof superstar ever and PG is a paper tiger.
-Ibaka gives them an element they didn't have last year, but he's not a reliable shooter and Zubac doesn't shoot at all.
-They play two tiny guards also.

Yeah, Lakers and Nets are the real barriers to me- the Jazz /could/ lose to lots of teams if their 3 ptrs aren't falling, but if they (and their opponent) are on their game, I'd favor them against any team than those two. Now if the 76ers and Boston are also bad matchups for us, so if they managed to get to the finals, I'd be worried.