Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Pretty cut and dry. How can they have an agreement before free agency even starts if they’re not contacting him prior.

So every team that signs a player right when Free Agency stars should get tampering charges?

 

[LogGrad98]

So every team that signs a player right when Free Agency stars should get tampering charges?

Exactly. This happens literally every year with someone somewhere. It is stupid. No way they can enforce this adequately.

 

[Avery]

I think the Knicks likely want to pepper in some more 2023 picks while Ainge wants their unprotected. He knows the Knicks are their own worst enemy.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

NBA should just legalize all tampering.

The Knicks signed his dad as a coach. How the hell can they not tamper? Is his Dad not suppose to talk to him ever?

I don't know if that helps or hurts the tampering investigation. I mean he can talk openly to his dad still right?

The toothpaste is out of the tube. Ya gonna hit every team with tampering?

 

[Elizah Huge]

So every team that signs a player right when Free Agency stars should get tampering charges?

Oh it’s a stupid rule to begin with. We are pretending like it doesn’t happen and only go after the blatant offenders.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

New agreement I’d try to arrive at:
-Three unprotected picks: ‘24, ‘29, and an option to choose ‘26 or ‘27*. Focusing on ‘24 gets the Jazz a guaranteed pick for that year, the option creates some extra utility.
-Mavs ‘23 pick
-Four swaps: super swaps** in ‘23, ‘25, ‘26 or ‘27, and regular swap in ‘28
-Fournier, Toppin, hopefully Grimes or Quickley (to send to the Lakers) but maybe just McBride.

* this just occurred with the draft capital owed to the Pelicans by the Lakers
**’The Knicks will send the highest of their 1st round picks and receive the latest of the Jazz’s.’ This could function to turn a pick owed that is in the 20’s into a lottery pick depending on how things play out, but it stacks the odds of extracting a more premium asset.

The name of the game is to eventually get two all-stars out of the Mitchell and Gobert trades. They most likely need multiple chances to do that and still need some luck.

This might still be less value than Rudy got since I’m confident that some of those Wolves players will net more (hopefully valuable) 1sts in a Lakers deal.

I think you have to get 2023... I know we have a bunch of picks, but I think that pick has a 50% chance at lottery in a good draft. I think 23/26/28 are the unprotected ones I'd go for. I want at least two others as well.

Knicks fans and podcasters are getting wild with what they think they will get Donovan for... If it goes any longer they gonna think we should be the ones sending picks with Donovan to take on Fournier and Randle. Gonna be a ton of back peddling done if a deal happens.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I think you have to get 2023... I know we have a bunch of picks, but I think that pick has a 50% chance at lottery in a good draft. I think 23/26/28 are the unprotected ones I'd go for. I want at least two others as well.

Knicks fans and podcasters are getting wild with what they think they will get Donovan for... If it goes any longer they gonna think we should be the ones sending picks with Donovan to take on Fournier and Randle. Gonna be a ton of back peddling done if a deal happens.

A swap gets that Knicks lottery pick, especially if the Knicks are taking back the Jazz's worst pick, no? This super swap idea has to be real since the Jazz are on the backside of one (the Royce pick). Creates some value in a real sense for the Jazz (since they need to secure as much premium value as possible) but gives the Knicks an easier sell to the fanbase and media that they didn't get absolutely fleeced (when they actually probably gave up more in the swaps than with the quantity of picks).

 

[Elizah Huge]

A swap gets that Knicks lottery pick, especially if the Knicks are taking back the Jazz's worst pick, no? This super swap idea has to be real since the Jazz are on the backside of one a la the Royce pick.

We only do swaps if it benefits us.

 

[NUMBERICA]

We only do swaps if it benefits us.

Right. When someone owns a swap, that's exactly what it is.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

A swap gets that Knicks lottery pick, especially if the Knicks are taking back the Jazz's worst pick, no? This super swap idea has to be real since the Jazz are on the backside of one a la the Royce pick.

Fine... give me a super swap in 23 and 24/26/28 unprotected and I'm cool. We will get some more **** of course but I don't care that much if they give us Toppin/Quickley or Grimes... Get that and at least one more pick and I'm good moving on.

Tony basically said the Lakers are interested in our Westbrook deal but that we won't do it until we know what is going on with Donovan. Do the Don deal and the Westbrook deal and you have all the draft capital you need. Still can collect a few more picks along the way but like 11-12 extra firsts is bonkers.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We only do swaps if it benefits us.

Right. When someone owns a swap, that's exactly what it is.

Obviously we make it so we can swap either our pick, the Minny pick, or the Philly pick with the NY pick.

 

[NUMBERICA]

A swap gets that Knicks lottery pick, especially if the Knicks are taking back the Jazz's worst pick, no? This super swap idea has to be real since the Jazz are on the backside of one (the Royce pick). Creates some value in a real sense for the Jazz (since they need to secure as much premium value as possible) but gives the Knicks an easier sell to the fanbase and media that they didn't get absolutely fleeced (when they actually probably gave up more in the swaps than with the quantity of picks).

In the big, dumb picture, the deal is "4 picks and 4 swaps" which sounds like about the mean/median value in all of the rumored discussions. It's similar to the Rudy deal, but not immediately obvious that it's bigger until you dice it, and how many fans are going to really do that? Dumb Knicks fans feel it's fair and a bit relieved it wasn't 6+ picks, dumb Jazz fans feel it's fair but a little sad it wasn't 6+ picks. Danny Ainge is laughing in his Scrooge McDuck vault of draft capital and Leon Rose is catatonic but relieved he keeps his job.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Obviously we make it so we can swap either our pick, the Minny pick, or the Philly pick with the NY pick.

Don't forget the Mavs pick they cough up. Jazz nominally have to get at least 4 picks (and at least 3 unprotected, there are core attributes of the Rudy deal that the Jazz just can't go under).

By the way, that 2029 Wolves pick is really loaded. Because they can't convey the pick later than '29 they just convey a 2nd if it falls in the top-5 (booooo), and they can just tank their way to that position (since the worst record is guaranteed the 5th pick at the latest).

 

[Elizah Huge]

Pick swaps are stupid underrated. Teams are more willing to throw those out too because they still get a pick that year. They are dangerous as **** especially when you own the firsts around them too.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This week will be a little telling because if Lebron doesn't sign an extension then the Lakers may be less willing to give up draft assets in a Westbrook deal. We could see something happen there if Lebron says "fix this and I will sign a one year extension".

The deal may precede a Don trade. In my mind NY needs to worry less about us keeping Donovan. What they need to worry about is a team coming with a big offer like Toronto or if Hornets get wild and send a bunch of unprotected picks (they would need to work with SA but it wouldn't be an issue). Hornets unprotected picks >>> Knicks unprotected picks imo.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Pick swaps are stupid underrated. Teams are more willing to throw those out too because they still get a pick that year. They are dangerous as **** especially when you own the firsts around them too.

A swap is how the Celtics got the #1 pick in 2017. NY (or whoever) are more than welcome to receive a pick after the lottery for their trouble.

I'm also shooting for '27 and '29 picks from LA, but would "fall back" to '27 and '29 (super?) swaps and '28 unprotected. FWIW.

 

[Elizah Huge]

A swap is how the Celtics got the #1 pick in 2017. NY (or whoever) are more than welcome to receive a pick after the lottery for their trouble.

I'm also shooting for '27 and '29 picks from LA, but would "fall back" to '27 and '29 (super?) swaps and '28 unprotected. FWIW.

A swap is also how Chicago got the #2 pick in the 2006 draft.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I just really want Tyler Herro. I don’t think we end up making a deal with Miami but… I almost prefer to any other offer being discussed.

 

[infection]

Fine... give me a super swap in 23 and 24/26/28 unprotected and I'm cool. We will get some more **** of course but I don't care that much if they give us Toppin/Quickley or Grimes... Get that and at least one more pick and I'm good moving on.

Tony basically said the Lakers are interested in our Westbrook deal but that we won't do it until we know what is going on with Donovan. Do the Don deal and the Westbrook deal and you have all the draft capital you need. Still can collect a few more picks along the way but like 11-12 extra firsts is bonkers.

Do we have any reasonable suspicion on whether LA would include the picks we were talking about? I had heard they declined adding those picks to get Buddy Hield and what seemed like a good return.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Do we have any reasonable suspicion on whether LA would include the picks we were talking about? I had heard they declined adding those picks to get Buddy Hield and what seemed like a good return.

They can only offer the 2027 and 2029 picks. Rumors were the Lakers would put one pick in but Indiana wanted two. The Pacers owner is super old school so the whole "paying a guy 47M not to play for his team" is also a stumbling block supposedly.

I think a package we can put together would be a total game changer for them and they would give up the two picks. I know we can get more volume by piecing out the deals separately... but I'd rather have the quality of unprotected far out future picks. Bogey/JC/Conley/Vando/Bev/Beasley are all amazing fits for them... 3 or 4 of them in a deal makes Lakers a title contender if they get healthy years from AD and Lebron.