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Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

Saint Cy of JFC said:
Nah, I'd rather have him. He's got talent. Let's see if Will Hardy is the real deal when it comes to developing talent.
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I can get with that. I think he had such an awful stint in the game he played against the Jazz that I am just left with that memory.
 
TheStormofWar said:
With all due respect, it's more likely a lengthy rebuild is in the cards and I'm sure the FO realizes it. Just no one is saying it. Ticket sales and all that. You don't just trade your two All-NBA caliber players and surrounding core and expect to be back in a minute. I don't really recall an instance where that's worked beyond Memphis.

The Jazz will probably get the Gobert-package in return for Don. 3 Unps, 1 swap, 1 or 2 protected, a young player (Toppin?), and filler. That seems to be the middle ground in all these rumors and games between the two Rose and Ainge.
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The problem is, if you don't give a reason for people to watch they'll figure that out and ticket sales will plummet.

I'm not against a lengthy rebuild, though I don't want to see it personally. But getting a Barrett type player gives people a reason to watch the games and a reason to go to them, at least in the short term. Does Toppin as your best future player to watch do that? I don't think so, though he kind of does intrigue me.

Having a bunch of draft picks gives you one kick *** draft party this year. Probably the best one ever at Vivent. But it won't really fill seats this year.
 
stitches said:
Seconds are worthless, especially when you have tons and tons of firsts - We already have 3 1sts in next years' draft. With the Mitchell trade we are very likely to collect at least 2 more. You just cannot roster all those players after some point... We can have 5 1sts and 2 seconds next year. There is diminishing return to picks, especially ones that are not premier picks...

Well... I guess we can always sell them for 1-3M a pick....
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Hard disagree. 2nds allow you to dial in value on trades. There are transactions that won’t require 1sts or players, so 2nds allow you to preserve or acquire better assets. At worst, you can use them to dump salary.

If the value of 2nds isn’t apparent to you after the last few years, maybe it just won’t click.
 
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framer said:
To be fair, the Jazz are planning on trading two prime all-stars plus a bunch of other assets before their tank. They aren't starting at bone dry zero. They look to have at least 2 and sometimes 3 first round picks every year for the next 7 or 8 years. It is going to be really hard to suck on purpose if two or three of our first and second year picks hit, especially if you get a head start with some of the Knick players (which I am still not sold on BTW.) Philly took a while, but they made some really bad picks along the way and didn't really start where we are.
Additionally, I feel like if the Jazz suck for 4 or 5 years, there will be a tremendous cost in fan support. Jazz fans are rabid because the Jazz win. Imagine what Ute football crowds would look like after 4 consecutive 3 win seasons. There has to be hope. This board, who are probably the most resilient of fans, barely survived the Corbin era. Jazz aren't pulling a 5 year tank.

Dallas screwed up because they wasted assets on Porzingis and now they let Brunson go for nothing. Their result wasn't inevitable.
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Half-assing it isn't necessarily about the years. Jazz don't need to tank for 5 years but one and done isn't going to be a step forward. That would be near miraculous. Jazz don't need to try to contend as soon as they see a light.

Jazz's best assets going forward is their picks. Jazz may lose that if they step up the next year and later Minny picks are probably going to be used for trades.

Dallas screwed up because Doncic was too good too soon and Mavs have a weird obsession against tanking. They didn't give up a ton for Porzingis but they lost those years where they could grow value internally.

Jazz fans are alright, they are pretty loyal by NBA standards and I am not arguing against good prospects but Jazz need a few of those before they start building up and can't rely on late first rounders for that.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Pelicans model seems pretty good to me, idk

Jazz can do a short tank if they get lucky off the bat. The Minnesota assets allow them to move differently. I still think they can do a short tank rebuild around Don, but it's probably too messy with the way he seems to be out on the Jazz as a franchise.
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I won't say it's undoable but why bother while you can nab top 8-10 picks for 2-3 years and build up on that. Even if Wemby or Scoot hits the ground running and you rush the roster around them, you risk losing Mitchell because he has already made up his mind. If it doesn't work out with Mitchell at PG and Wemby needs a floor leader, you are stuck with a new decision where you need to trade Mitchell for less value because he is an expiring.

I just don't think it's worth it.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I think TJ was just saying they aren't going to try and be bad forever. I think there are a million shades of what that is supposed to mean, so you can interpret it how you will. The reality is that it will take all star level talent to be competitive again. It will take awhile to draft and develop those stars.
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No one is trying to be bad forever except may be the Kings.

The point is while you need to develop the stars, you can't try to rush them into contention.
 
Hekate said:
No one is trying to be bad forever except may be the Kings.

The point is while you need to develop the stars, you can't try to rush them into contention.
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My read on what Tony said is that they are going to be aggressive with the picks they got in the Gobert (and possibly future Mitchell) trade to upgrade the roster, not wait for those picks to convey and do a long-term tank.

Bet the idea is be bad for a year or two then get moving.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
My read on what Tony said is that they are going to be aggressive with the picks they got in the Gobert (and possibly future Mitchell) trade to upgrade the roster, not wait for those picks to convey and do a long-term tank.

Bet the idea is be bad for a year or two then get moving.
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Pretty much. Grab RJ and get a top pick in 2023 maybe two lottery picks because we will likely have 4-5 1st rounders we can do something with. Then likely be in the lottery again in 2024 then we start flirting with the playoffs again in 2025. That could be the plan at least.
 
Also wouldnt be surprised if the Jazz go out next off-season and try to overpay for someone like a Kyle Kuzma possibly.

I think a lot of teams might try to preserve cap-space for the massive '24 free agency class, so Utah could possibly sign some guys in '23. Guys like D'Angelo Russell, Andrew Wiggin, Kyle Kuzma, Jerami Grant, Myles Turner, Gary Trent Jr, Josh Hart, Dillon Brooks, Jakob Poetl will be UFA's next year. Those are all starter level players who are in their mid to late 20's and arent really max worthy, but are better than the average starter, so they will have interesting salary figures and Utah can sweep in and overpay a bit compared to other teams and get some solid guys then use their trade pieces to get the next available star.
 
Also a lot is made out about us owing our '24 pick to the Thunder and that we should still be bad, but we might want to give that pick up so we have the '25 pick free'd up because that's the next hyped up draft class.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Also a lot is made out about us owing our '24 pick to the Thunder and that we should still be bad, but we might want to give that pick up so we have the '25 pick free'd up because that's the next hyped up draft class.
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I think it’s lottery protected through ’26, then we give them nothing
 
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