Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

[David Stern]

I’m interested to see why one of the sides is leaking that the Jazz ’strongly’ want RJ - is it so they can claim victory when we get all of their draft picks and young players without RJ?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If the cost is low, I don’t care. I just don’t think it’s close to being that low. If RJ is in the deal, I think it’s way more likely that 3 firsts are missing instead of one. The fans who don’t want to trade him probably think he’s going to be an all star next season. If you’re a counting stats person, that argument is legitimate. There’s just no way the Knicks value him at 1.5 firsts.

IMO, Barnes was much more talented as a young player. For one, he was already proven to be a contributor in a smaller role as a young player. I’m very skeptical of RJ’s ability to do that as both a bad defender and a bad shooter. Barnes also had a lot more game. His face up, mid range game was always there and even if he wasn’t great at it you could see how it could be a thing down the line. A 6’8 guy who can get his shot off at any time….that’s a unique talent. Barrett doesn’t have a unique talent. He looks like a physical freak, but he sucks badly in areas where athleticism is supposed to shine.

I think you are greatly overrating Barnes in his age 21 season versus RJ. RJ showed an ability to be a good player offball his second year. May have been a little fluky but when exactly was Barnes creating and getting a shot whenever he wanted in GS. How effective was he as a role player his age 21 season?

Barrett has no mid range game or ability to shoot off the dribble. His offensive game is running at the rim and chucking up floaters, contested layups, and hoping to get fouled. He’s terrible at this btw, I think he was the worst finisher in the league last year. One could say he’s great at getting to the rim because of his high attempts, but his high attempts are also so high because he just tosses up a ton of garbage with no chance at scoring. I don’t think guys improve at the basket the same way they can as a shooter. You can get better, but most of it is natural athleticism and craftiness.

The midrange is horrible. The finishing is bad in a vacuum. Then you consider the frequency with which he’s getting there… the fact that Robinson shared the flier with him for half his minutes… and Robinson is the player in the nba that is most anchored to the rim in the league. He played like 70% of his minutes with Randle… who is not a guy who helps his teammates or spaces the floor.

Not sure where you get the idea that guys can’t improve at finishing at the rim but they can/have in the past. Jaylen Brown did… also an iffy shooter who turned into a good shooter. Has a more limited handle than Barrett and less creation ability. Significantly better from midrange.

There are a lot of young wings who were very negative players and eventually made it work….but to me those guys were all significantly more talented. He’s not hopeless, I would be willing to be that team who offers him a huge offer sheet next summer. But Knicks people are looking at a guy who finished the year 25/6/4 and I’m seeing him as a guy who needs a lot of work to be a positive player in this league.

If any team offered 1.5 picks for Barrett, I think they would laugh their *** off.

The point of 1.5 Unprotected picks being his value is … we want 4 unprotected Knicks picks in the deal… they want to do 2 to allow maximum flexibility for their next deal… maybe Danny settles for 3 but maybe RJ is the only way to make up that delta. They might do better selling RJ to a third team but what would they get? I’m asking honestly and not in a rhetorical fashion.

So he represents the Knicks saving two unprotected picks or he becomes the bargaining chip that allows Knicks to sell their fans (yeah we gave up 4 but only other way to do it was trade RJ… and y’all freaked out about that).

So it’s kind of like this… would you rather have RJ or 1 unprotected pick, 1 protected pick, and Grimes. I’d rather have the latter and the Knicks might too but it’s a flexible way to work a deal that might fit the needs of both teams. If RJ was a consistent 3 point shooter… a more consistent defender (he’s been solid mostly), then he’d be completely off the table. If he figures those things out and gets a shade better at the rim he’s a super valuable two way wing who is a good second or third scorer on a contender… the toughest guy to get in the league is that player type… it’s worth the gamble.

 

[jaydhn]

Y’all are going soft. 3 unprotected picks is the price just to get on the call.

Dejounte Murray went for 4 1sts, 2 unprotected, 1 protected to 16 and 1 pick swap. I wonder what you can get from other teams for the offer Ainge wants.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Not sure if this was specifically mentioned, but Ian Begley is reporting that the Jazz and Cavs have been talking. I think they might be better and fairer partners than the Knicks.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Not sure if this was specifically mentioned, but Ian Begley is reporting that the Jazz and Cavs have been talking. I think they might be better and fairer partners than the Knicks.

Also… wait for it… this is leverage.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Not sure if this was specifically mentioned, but Ian Begley is reporting that the Jazz and Cavs have been talking. I think they might be better and fairer partners than the Knicks.

Also… wait for it… this is leverage.

It has… they can put together a decent package. Basically a swap in 2023… 25/27/29 1sts… sexton and Okoro. The shine is off Okoro but still worth a flier.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Not sure if this was specifically mentioned, but Ian Begley is reporting that the Jazz and Cavs have been talking. I think they might be better and fairer partners than the Knicks.

They can definitely beat the offer the Knicks are reported to have most recently offered. I think the Mobley is really good though, and probably sets them up to be a winning franchise for the foreseeable future.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

They can definitely beat the offer the Knicks are reported to have most recently offered. I think the Mobley is really good though, and probably sets them up to be a winning franchise for the foreseeable future.

Side note... Cleveland would be hilarious... they out here watching everyone load up on guys that are 6'8" and are like "eff no... you either 6' or 7' or GTFO!"

 

[whatthe]

I can see Mitchell being happy in Cleveland. I lived there and politics is huge there. There is a ton to do in the community and Ohio is always the center of presidential politics and influence. He can be super politically active and involved. The are many diverse cultures and communities out in Ohio he could connect with, which he has shown he one of the best in the NBA. Mitchell also has shown that the Media will follow him anywhere. He will be under the umbrella of the East Coast media. It could work out well for him.

The Cavs could be motivated like Minnesota was and view Donovan as a final piece and be willing to throw the kitchen sink to get him. Their defense with 3 7 footers would work extremely well with Donovan's game. Donovan could go to another level on the Cavs team.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So I think part of the pivot here is Knicks realizing they have no market for Randle (though some think they can move him to Phoenix and GET a pick) and would have too many mouths to feed.

The other part I think is the Jazz realizing they would have Minny's picks, they will get LA's picks, and stacking all the NY and other picks is still good but would have some diminishing return. If they can get RJ, Fournier or Rose, 23/28 Knicks, Detroit first, Dallas first, and a swap that is still pretty good. I think you could at a minimum get McBride and Reddish to sent to LA but also might be able to get IQ or Toppin (would give the Knicks their choice there). It allows Knicks to go out on the market and offer their 2024/26/30 picks plus whatever protected ones they have for a second star. Jaylen Brown would be the target imo... has been in rumors and will hit unrestricted FA in 2 years. Maybe Boston realizes he ain't staying there and works to retool. If they re-sign Barrett he has to play well to keep his value for that trade. He might be awesome off ball but also might only put up mild counting stats. His role on that team would be better suited for a guy like Grimes.

Meanwhile if Barrett plays better here and grows you have a guy that is increasing his value and someone to fill some seats. The return for the two additional unprotected picks we wanted originally isn't going to be what Barrett could be imo and add in the diminishing returns and I think its an easy case to make.

Say we keep Mike, Fournier, Barrett, Vando.... then you don't have an atrocious team but it won't win 30 games unless RJ is awesome. RJ should have some space and a guy to set him up a bit... and a young coach to grow with.

I'm not the biggest RJ fan. There is a chance he can't make enough shots... but a great gamble imo.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Sexton (assuming a 4/80M deal) + Okoro + Agbaji + Windler for Mitchell works for both sides salary cap wise.

Add in their 25/27/29 unprotected 1sts with a pick swap in 28 or something like that.

That is enough to make the Knicks sweat at the very least.

 

[SolenTent]

I'd say you'd want Obi Toppin included in that Knicks deal, right? He could be fun. Barrett sucks ***.