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Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

Coach Ellis said:
I don’t see any way possible that Heat picks are more valuable than Knick picks - History tells us the exact opposite. Only once since 2010 have the Heat picked higher than the Knicks. I wouldn’t count on that to change.

2022 Draft
Knicks - 11
Heat - 27
2021 Draft *
Knicks - 19
Heat - 18
2020 Draft
Knicks - 08
Heat - 20
2019 Draft
Knicks - 03
Heat - 13
2018 Draft
Knicks - 09
Heat - 16
2017 Draft
Knicks - 08
Heat - 14
2016 Draft
Knicks - 07
Miami - 24
2015 Draft
Knicks - 04
Heat - 10
2014 Draft
Knicks - 12
Heat - 26
2013 Draft
Knicks - 24
Heat - 30
2012 Draft
Knicks - 16
Heat - 27
2011 Draft
Knicks - 17
Heat - 28
2010 Draft
Knicks - 09
Heat - 18

Average Draft Position Since 2010
Knicks - 11.3
Heat - 20.8

# of times in the Lottery since 2010
Knicks - 9 (including two top 5 picks)
Heat - 3 (lowest was #10)

# of times picked 20 or higher
Knicks - 1
Heat - 7
Click to expand...
Sold. Knicks or bust for me. Hold Donovan out for all I care. Make it a Simmons situation. Squeeze NY. If Spida cooperates, then he plays the David Robinson Admiral role just, 2 by land and none by sea.

Besides wasn't one of the 3rd Reich's Panzer divisions called Spinnengewebe?
 
Coach Ellis said:
I don’t see any way possible that Heat picks are more valuable than Knick picks - History tells us the exact opposite. Only once since 2010 have the Heat picked higher than the Knicks. I wouldn’t count on that to change.

2022 Draft
Knicks - 11
Heat - 27
2021 Draft *
Knicks - 19
Heat - 18
2020 Draft
Knicks - 08
Heat - 20
2019 Draft
Knicks - 03
Heat - 13
2018 Draft
Knicks - 09
Heat - 16
2017 Draft
Knicks - 08
Heat - 14
2016 Draft
Knicks - 07
Miami - 24
2015 Draft
Knicks - 04
Heat - 10
2014 Draft
Knicks - 12
Heat - 26
2013 Draft
Knicks - 24
Heat - 30
2012 Draft
Knicks - 16
Heat - 27
2011 Draft
Knicks - 17
Heat - 28
2010 Draft
Knicks - 09
Heat - 18

Average Draft Position Since 2010
Knicks - 11.3
Heat - 20.8

# of times in the Lottery since 2010
Knicks - 9 (including two top 5 picks)
Heat - 3 (lowest was #10)

# of times picked 20 or higher
Knicks - 1
Heat - 7
Click to expand...

I think you may have read it wrong. I said Heat unprotected picks are more valuable than Knicks protected picks.
 
I just don't the logic most of you are following:

- so it's been "leaking" the entire season from "Don's people" that it's only a matter of time before he asks out of Utah

- then we hit this summer, Quin leaves, Ainge starts blowing up the roster, and y'all say Don's image is "too clean" to ask to be dealt?

You can't have it both ways. Either he's been angling for a chance to leave all along and would be pushing for this move (through like a KD type request) OR he never intended on leaving anytime soon and just wanted to see what Ainge is going to do. Don's image has literally been taking damage nonstop the last year, and he hasn't demanded anything. He's taking hits right now from people in the media and he's still keeping his head above it. Almost every other star in the NBA would be publicly upset about the future of the franchise. All he has said is that he was "unnerved" that Quin left.
 
LoPo said:
I just don't the logic most of you are following:

- so it's been "leaking" the entire season from "Don's people" that it's only a matter of time before he asks out of Utah

- then we hit this summer, Quin leaves, Ainge starts blowing up the roster, and y'all say Don's image is "too clean" to ask to be dealt?

You can't have it both ways. Either he's been angling for a chance to leave all along and would be pushing for this move (through like a KD type request) OR he never intended on leaving anytime soon and just wanted to see what Ainge is going to do. Don's image has literally been taking damage nonstop the last year, and he hasn't demanded anything. He's taking hits right now from people in the media and he's still keeping his head above it. Almost every other star in the NBA would be publicly upset about the future of the franchise. All he has said is that he was "unnerved" that Quin left.
Click to expand...
Were you born yesterday?
 
LoPo said:
I just don't the logic most of you are following:

- so it's been "leaking" the entire season from "Don's people" that it's only a matter of time before he asks out of Utah

- then we hit this summer, Quin leaves, Ainge starts blowing up the roster, and y'all say Don's image is "too clean" to ask to be dealt?

You can't have it both ways. Either he's been angling for a chance to leave all along and would be pushing for this move (through like a KD type request) OR he never intended on leaving anytime soon and just wanted to see what Ainge is going to do. Don's image has literally been taking damage nonstop the last year, and he hasn't demanded anything. He's taking hits right now from people in the media and he's still keeping his head above it. Almost every other star in the NBA would be publicly upset about the future of the franchise. All he has said is that he was "unnerved" that Quin left.
Click to expand...

His imaged has actually been massaged to the point to where he is coming out of this clean. Multiple people in the media were saying that he should ask out. We leak that we’re listening to offers. He doesn’t look like he asked out and nobody blames him because who would want to start over with a rebuilding team.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Now pull out the ones that hit top 5 and see where it lands... because that is the issue. You may lose a pick entirely in that scenario depending on how it is set up.

I get there is value in jumping 8-9 spots.. if there are protections on those picks you remove some of the upside and sparkle. Lotto odds have also shifted the last two years so the Knicks may finish 8/9 and jump into the protection zone more often.


I VERY MUCH prefer unprotected Knicks picks... I really do. If they only do 23/25 and like top 5/10 protection on 27/29 then it gets less juicy and closes the gap.

Herro, Jovic, Yurt are better than IQ/Toppin/McBride.

So they need to come with the unprotected picks (at least 3) and/or Grimes to make it work imo.
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That’s even if they are just top-5 protected. Look at how many would be lost if they were even just top-10 protected.
 
Elizah Huge said:
His imaged has actually been massaged to the point to where he is coming out of this clean. Multiple people in the media were saying that he should ask out. We leak that we’re listening to offers. He doesn’t look like he asked out and nobody blames him because who would want to start over with a rebuilding team.
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If he wanted to keep a perfect image, and the plan was to get traded this summer, and there was this "massaging", why the hell would he let his people leak that he eventually wanted to go?

There is zero logic in that. Zero.
 
Coach Ellis said:
I don’t see any way possible that Heat picks are more valuable than Knick picks - History tells us the exact opposite. Only once since 2010 have the Heat picked higher than the Knicks. I wouldn’t count on that to change.

2022 Draft
Knicks - 11
Heat - 27
2021 Draft *
Knicks - 19
Heat - 18
2020 Draft
Knicks - 08
Heat - 20
2019 Draft
Knicks - 03
Heat - 13
2018 Draft
Knicks - 09
Heat - 16
2017 Draft
Knicks - 08
Heat - 14
2016 Draft
Knicks - 07
Miami - 24
2015 Draft
Knicks - 04
Heat - 10
2014 Draft
Knicks - 12
Heat - 26
2013 Draft
Knicks - 24
Heat - 30
2012 Draft
Knicks - 16
Heat - 27
2011 Draft
Knicks - 17
Heat - 28
2010 Draft
Knicks - 09
Heat - 18

Average Draft Position Since 2010
Knicks - 11.3
Heat - 20.8

# of times in the Lottery since 2010
Knicks - 9 (including two top 5 picks)
Heat - 3 (lowest was #10)

# of times picked 20 or higher
Knicks - 1
Heat - 7
Click to expand...
Just for fun, ran Minnesota through the same exercise - and whoo boy! DA could make the Brooklyn/Boston trade look like child’s play when the dust settles.

2022 Draft
Timberwolves - 19
2021 Draft
Timberwolves - 07
2020 Draft
Timberwolves - 01
2019 Draft
Timberwolves - 11
2018 Draft
Timberwolves - 19
2017 Draft
Timberwolves - 07
2016 Draft
Timberwolves - 05
2015 Draft
Timberwolves - 01
2014 Draft
Timberwolves - 13
2013 Draft
Timberwolves - 09
2012 Draft
Timberwolves - 10
2011 Draft
Timberwolves - 02
2010 Draft
Timberwolves - 04

Since 2010, the Wolves have NEVER had a pick higher than 19, and they’ve had their pick inside the top 10 NINE TIMES - including FIVE top 5 picks (#1 twice and #2 once).

Even if Rudy puts them into a higher tier for the short term, these picks are absolute gold. In the last 13 years, they’ve only been outside the lottery TWICE!
 
Last edited:
Lopo takes two things that are entirely possible to coexist (and actually make complete sense to exist at one time" at one time and is like "No way these two things can happen"
 
LoPo said:
If he wanted to keep a perfect image, and the plan was to get traded this summer, and there was this "massaging", why the hell would he let his people leak that he eventually wanted to go?

There is zero logic in that. Zero.
Click to expand...

Nobody besides local media is leaking that.
 
Elizah Huge said:
We are doing each other a solid by him not requesting a trade publicly and by us trading him instead of keeping him on a rebuilding team.
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That’s how I see it. Just need somebody to step up to the plate with what a real offer for an All Star guard in his prime (with three years left on a favorable contract) should actually look like.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Lopo takes two things that are entirely possible to coexist (and actually make complete sense to exist at one time" at one time and is like "No way these two things can happen"
Click to expand...
Of course two things can happen at once. However, y'all are just trying to spin this to fit whichever narrative becomes true. Just more Donovan Mitchell unsubstantiated slander.

At the end of the day, there has been no evidence for the speculation earlier in the summer. And this is a perfect opportunity to say something about leaving, but he hasn't.
 
I would argue that the new lottery odds make lottery picks more valuable, not less as well. Getting the 8th worst spot has a higher mathematical probability at getting a top 3 pick than ever before. The cost? Being at the very bottom of the league comes with lower mathematical odds of a top 3 pick than before.

Thr picks are more, not less valuable.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
I would argue that the new lottery odds make lottery picks more valuable, not less as well. Getting the 8th worst spot has a higher mathematical probability at getting a top 3 pick than ever before. The cost? Being at the very bottom of the league comes with lower mathematical odds of a top 3 pick than before.

Thr picks are more, not less valuable.
Click to expand...
Correct... but what if NY puts top 5 protections on a pick? Those odds could work against you.
 
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