I am not a regular on here by any means, and I don't intend to start. I do love the threads of opposing fans reactions. Those never get old!
I am going to post my thoughts on the Westbrook saga. I know a lot of this won't be popular, but I'm used to that.
You are free to tell me I am wrong or call me a racist, if that makes you feel better. I will check back to see reaction, but I won't promise that I'll post anything further.
Ok. I was at the game on Monday against the Thunder. I sat in the lower bowl.
I am not a season ticket holder, but I get access to tickets from time to time. I have sat on row 10 for a number of games. I have NEVER heard anything out of any fans that could be construed as racist, mean-spirited, or even all that much disrespectful to players. Quite the contrary. I remember one game against the spurs, Manu was just killing the jazz and I yelled out to the jazz to guard him better. Everyone around me said things to the effect of "He's just good." I had to sit down and agree.
I have seen many instances of jazz fans interacting with opposing players in a very cool way. Manu was one of them. He was once interacting with young kids while warming up. Being on the 10th row, I got a good look and Manu was very good with them. He was also shaking hands with quite a few fans that were calling to him. All this while trying to warm up for the game.
Hard to dislike the guy.
The ONLY fans I have ever heard that were disrespectful were OPPOSING fans. I remember one Bucks fan who was so loud and non-stop obnoxiou that my whole section was getting ready to beat the crap out of him.
A lot of fans go to opposing stadiums with the express purpose of antagonizing the home fans.
I was at game 4 vs the spurs in 2007 and there were a bunch of female spurs fans who were just giving it to jazz fans all game. I finally approached them and asked them to stop trying to make the game suck for the rest of us and to be cool. They did cool it down, until the spurs put the game away. And then...well you fill in the blank.
I have many such stories.
I have been a jazz fan since the year Karl Malone was drafted. I attended games in the Salt Palace.
Before that, I lived in Oregon and was a Blazers fan. When people say that the jazz have the loudest and craziest fans, I kind of laugh. The same thing was always said about the Blazers crowds.
I am aware that a lot of jazz fans have inferiority complexes about how the jazz and Utah are perceived by the rest of the NBA. (you known what? Blazers fans thought the same way about their perceptions. Must be a small market thing)
I have never cared about it. I didn't take it at all personally when Derek Harper said "You go live in Utah" I didn't care when Rodman and Bison Dele (don't remember his real name) were badmouthing Salt Lake. Both of these guys were zero character guys anyway.
I lived in LA during the 98 season and most people I knew down there would meet me and get all worried that I was a jazz fan. Oh if you heard some of the ignorant things they said. After a while, most of them softened up and realized that the lakers were not the only team in the league worth rooting for.
I have been down to LA on numerous occasions. That fan base is something interesting. As much as jazz fans have an inferiority complex, they have a severe superiority complex. There are silly fans there too who only care when the team wins the title.
Ok, back to the present.
I saw Westbrook at one point, start to really yell at fans. Looked pretty bad. He was pointing and screaming. It was right after a Thunder player had slipped on something and lost the ball out of bounds. Westbrook looked very mad about it and looked like he was ready to jump into the stands. He was facing my section and my section got pretty mad at him and many yelled at him to go sit down.
On my way home, when I first heard about Westbrook and the fan, I assumed it was that incident. Obviously it wasn't.
Was I a bit surprised that it was Westbrook who got into with a fan? NO! If someone were to say that a player got into with a fan, who would I first assume was the player? Westbrook. He's been a complete jerk for a long time.
It's not just in SLC either.
When Westbrook hit the fan's cell phone last year, I thought he was gonna get a lengthy suspension. I thought the same thing when Hayward did it. That sort of thing should not be tolerated in the least.
For Westbrook, it's pretty common.
The fans started booing him during introductions and every time he touched the ball. The guy has built up his reputation.
Now, I think Westbrook the player is amazing. His talent, how he plays, competes, the amazing things he can do with the ball. He's a marvel. But I am disgusted with his attitude, the way he treats fans and especially his fellow competitors. Just a few weeks ago there was a lengthy article about how Westbrook really pushes the line with how he interacts with other point guards in the league.
The guys seems to have major anger issues. That's no way to go through life. The guy has it all. Why so angry?
I have the opposite reaction to Paul George. I can't stand the way he plays. He's talented, but pushes off constantly and always tries to jump into guys to get fouls. I don't like watching him play at all. But he seems like a first class guy.
Now, the incident. I don't see anything racist at all with saying "Get on your knees" or whatever was said. I don't even know if that was said by the fan or not. Westbrook says he did, but I didn't see any real acknowledgement in any jazz official statements.
But if that was said, my reaction is "is that supposed to be an insult? Seems weird. Seems stupid. Better luck next time"
Hey, everyone at some time has wanted to say a good zinger in the moment and we said something so stupid, that we hoped nobody heard it.
So, Westbrook gets caught with video evidence going WAY over the line. Threats, major swearing, and he even dropped the N-word. So what does he do? He plays the race card.
Yes, I am saying that Westbrook said that to insulate himself. It worked.
A bunch of teammates collaborate, but they don't do a good job. Felton (not what I would call a good character guy) goes on and on about family and other stuff that was never alleged to be said in this incident.
National media picks onto this. Sports media is a funny thing. It seems often that they want to be serious journalists, so when a social issue comes up, they pile on.
Guys like Shaq say that they've heard racist stuff in SLC before. Funny, they never say what, never point to anything specific, and didn't say anything when it allegidly happened.
Keep in mind, a lot of players, fans and media do not like SLC. I have a few hunches as to why.
Shaq still never got over the beatings in 97 and 98. The lakers and their fans at that time seeme offended that a team from "backwards" UTAH would dare beat them.
There are a few players who really have it out for the jazz. Remmeber Jon Barry?
So when I hear shaq and the other players who said this about SLC, I had a whole bunch of grains of salt.
That's right. I think they are lying.
There are a lot of fans and media who take real offense to the fact that Utah has an NBA team at all, and at that, a very good one.
Remember Peter Vescey? He was so obviously anti-Jazz that I do believe that is why he lost his TV spot and went back to being a writer that nobody's heard of. He took it way too far, quite often.
I'm am quite sure that many would love to see the jazz be a perennial loser and even lose the team.
What better way to cause that than to call us racists.
Add in the Mormon aspect and the flawed perception that Utah is just a bunch of white hicks.
So now the jazz are faced with a real crisis. Media is jumping on this story and their own players are taking Westbrook's side. I'm sure they panicked. They would lose their stars and never get another good free agent to come to Utah again. Death to the franchise. It's all based on a narrative and not reality, but in this case, the potential damage is real. I get it.
So the jazz give the suspension and Gail Miller does her speech. Ok, I get that they had to do something drastic. I don't like it, but what could they do? I get that.
I don't like bowing to pressure. I don't live on narratives. I prefer facts and reality.
Unfortunately, many people today prefer the opposite. Look at the college admission scandal.
I'm fine with Gail making a speech, but I had some problems with some of it.
"We are not a racist city!"
Oh, I cringed! Why say something like that? No matter how you say it, it doesn't sound good at all. You are just giving all the race accusers credibility.
Then she says that we should all be respectful during games. I could only think "Well, what did she tell her husband when he got into a fight with the Denver fan. What about when he yelled across the floor at Jerry during a playoff game to get Karl out because he was dogging it. He said some bad things that time, and Karl threatened to retire.
Larry cried and said he was sorry and they kissed and made up, like so many other times.
Sounds like Larry and Karl believed in forgiveness and second chances.
There were quite a few other instances like that. I loved Larry and everything he did for SLC and for the jazz, but he also was hyper-competitive and went overboard quite a few times.
Unfortunately, I can point to many times in my life when I was hyper-competitive and said things I wish I hadn't.
How about Jerry Sloan. I know many fans were complaining about Jerry's language on the bench not being family friendly and the Jazz pretty much told the fans to sit somewhere out of earshot.
And you say you want fans to behave, but you sell alcohol? Hey, if you want to drink alcohol, I won't try to stop you, but I think we can all agree that drinking will make you say things you otherwise wouldn't.
(sidenote: I read Darrel Dawkin's book, a very funny read by the way, and he said that he heard jazz fans once and was surpised that a bunch of sober mormons would say things like that. Showed his ignorance. There is a lot of beer being consumed at games and Utah is not all Mormon, not even close)
I do not agree at all with a lifetime suspension for the fan. One instance and you are gone for life? REALLY? Major overreaction.
Not only that, Gail basically calls him a racist in her speech and at that point, no jazz official had said that the fan was in any way racist.
Suspend for a year. That should be enough, but the jazz decided to go far enough so that everyone was placated.
Wouldn't surprise me if the fan is quietly reinstated and even compensated at some future time. Right now, it's all about PR.
Here is a problem: You never win when you bow to the race crowd. They are never placated. Is all of this going to convince the media, the NBA fans, and Shaq, and even Westbrook that the jazz are not racist?
Were fans yelling at any other player other than Westbrook?
If we are all such racists, then why do we cheer a team mostly made of up black players? Why do we love a guy like Donavon?
Some people are just always going to hate Utah. Players will believe the lies. Then they come here and realize that it is a bunch of lies. How many players have come to the jazz and spoken out saying that the perceptions are wrong?
What would Westbrook have to do to get permanently banned? Go into the crowd and beat the tarr out of a fan? Nope. Artest did that and was back in the league in one year.
Rape someone? uh......
Say something racist? I think you can figure that one out.
Why is the country so hyper-sensitive? I have been called names my whole life. I have been called some pretty nasty things. I was taught about sticks and stones.
Life is not meant to be easy. You can't make everyone like you and treat you right and only say nice things. Even people married to each other say the nastiest things.
Now we are banning someone from EVER coming to an arena for anything for saying something? I don't think this is right.
I remember playing a football game once and someone called me "boy" A friend of mine said "You gonna take that?"
I wasn't even fazed. I am a boy. that's an insult?
My friend was from Alabama and said "Where I come from, someone calls you boy, you throw down"
I said "Well that is just plain stupid."
Reaction from many jazz fans has disappointed me. No, I don't expect everyone to have the same opinion as me. In fact, I've gotten to the point where I expect most people to disagree with me.
But setting up a GoFundMe to prove to people that we are good?
Taking Westbrook's side and saying that he was justified in his reaction because the jazz fan was a jerk first?
I don't stand with any of this.
And I think a lot of fans are just reacting this way just to be PC.
It's almost like saying "Look at me! I'm not a racist! I'm a good person!"
I haven't watched a Jazz game since Monday. I'm not sure when I will again. I'm sure I'll get over it soon. Right now, I am disappointed in the organization for how this was handled.
I will even say that I am disappointed with some of the players reactions. I love our players. I think we have some of the absolute best character people on our team.
But man, when players start going on about race....it bothers me.
Maybe I want to be able to enjoy my sports without politics being thrown at me. I'm not saying "shut up and play". More like "keep it separate."
You can go ahead and say that as a white male, I don't even understand where they are coming from. That is certainly true. To a point. We all have different life experiences. But just because I am not black does not mean that I don't get it. I live in this country, too. Trying to silence dissenting opinions probably means that you don't have a strong leg to stand on.
I don't like the way the country is handling it right now. The fake hate crimes that we are seeing, the false narratives with the Micheal Brown and Trayvon cases.
And NBA players jumped on that those.
If there is so much racism in America, then why latch on to fake racism?
Why did that actor in Chicago have to stage a racist hate crime if they are happening all over the place?
I didn't care for Lebron getting so involved in the presidential campaign. Ok, he can certainly do that if he wants. But he said a lot of rotten things about Trump voters that I considered way out of line. He called Mr Trump a racist many times.
What did he say when Hillary said "They all look alike" and gushed out laughing? Nothing.
Has he called for the Virginia politicians to resign?
That only makes me think he doesn't really care about racsim, but just in an agenda.
(Didn't work though, did it? Ohio went for...who?)
There are good ways to address racism. I think most people are taking wrong ways. Trying to force everyone to never say anything remotely racist is not going to do it.
Overreactions won't do it
No, I don't have many answers. I just don't like what I am seeing.
Last year, when the whole kneeling thing was happening, I told David Locke that if the jazz players started kneeling, I would stop supporting the jazz in every way. My fandom would end. I was being serious.
David asked me "Are you saying that the players cannot express themselves and say how they feel? What about Constitutional freedom of speech?"
I responded "Hey, if they have freedom of speech and decide to use it in that way, then certainly I have freedom of speech and can refuse to be a fan. I never said they can't do it. I just said that if they do, there will be consequences."
The NFL certainly learned that.
Now, with this policy of no disrespectful behavior allowed....where is the line? Can I call the hotline to complain when an opposing fan won't shut up and I am having a very annoying experience at the game? Will that fan be tossed?
What if I hear a fan whistle at the dancers? What if someone says that the dancers are hot. Are they being misogynists?
How about if two little kids are sitting behind me screaming their support of Westbrook and yelling "Jazz suck" the whole game. Can I turn around and berate the father for not teaching his kids respect? Can I get security to remove them?
(This did happen to me on Monday, the kids yelling part. I made no response...Unlike a certain player on the Thunder.)
Who really gets to decide what is allowed and what isn't? Who is the final arbitrator on what is offensive and what isn't?
Where did people get the idea that they have the right to not be offended?
And I have read some threads on Jazzfanz where many of you say some pretty mean things about individual jazz players when they have bad games.
Is that wrong?
