Jazz have 2 of the top 5 poorest defensive impact players.

[SoberasHotRod]

For the first time this season I'm down on Keyonte. I still think you should judge a rookie's potential by his highs and not his lows, so I still think Keyonte has a ton of potential, I'm just less sure now that he will ever get there. He's definitely a tough shot taker, which means his shooting percentages shouldn't be compared with guys who are just taking open shots, but that's part of the problem where he isn't able to get to his spots like I thought he could in order to take easier shots. I also haven't seen his vision or passing lately that got me excited earlier in the season.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

KO not in the list?

Olynyk leads the team in DBPM and is 4th in Defensive Win Shares.

 

[fishonjazz]

But Keynote is definitely concerning. Yes rooks are rarely good on defense but the only other rookie who made it to the list was Hawkins who's fell out of Pelicans rotation for this very reason. And Keyonte’s inconsistent offensive production surely doesnt help the matter either.

Well ya. I have been saying for a while now that keyonte kind of sucks. Going wat back to his college career.
Also been saying for a while (for all players) that looking the part and showing flashes is nice but production is way better.

Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk

 

[HermanG]

For the first time this season I'm down on Keyonte. I still think you should judge a rookie's potential by his highs and not his lows, so I still think Keyonte has a ton of potential, I'm just less sure now that he will ever get there. He's definitely a tough shot taker, which means his shooting percentages shouldn't be compared with guys who are just taking open shots, but that's part of the problem where he isn't able to get to his spots like I thought he could in order to take easier shots. I also haven't seen his vision or passing lately that got me excited earlier in the season.

He had his best game of his season so recently that its even in his "last 5 games" list in NBA.com.... I mean even if most of his points came in the 4th against bench guys he scored 13 of his 30 points going against Chet or SGA in that OKC game where he posted the 30/7/3 line.

We were probably too excited after the Summer League and thats the reason we have been disappointed thus far, but on a rookie scale and by comparing to other rookies, he has still outperformed his draft position. Just give it time and dont feed the trolls.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

For the first time this season I'm down on Keyonte. I still think you should judge a rookie's potential by his highs and not his lows, so I still think Keyonte has a ton of potential, I'm just less sure now that he will ever get there. He's definitely a tough shot taker, which means his shooting percentages shouldn't be compared with guys who are just taking open shots, but that's part of the problem where he isn't able to get to his spots like I thought he could in order to take easier shots. I also haven't seen his vision or passing lately that got me excited earlier in the season.

He's going to be good, but it's not clear he's a guaranteed top 10 PG

 

[fishonjazz]

Do the haters even know who Keyonte has played the most minutes with?
#1 JC 447
#2 JC 396
You can decide which JC is which, but the point shouldnt be hard to see. Out of those minutes, the trio of JC-JC-Keyonte has spent 311 on the court simultaneously, with -86 total BPM and -13.2 net rating. That is also our 2nd most used 3 player lineup, and it accounts for almost half of Keyonte's total minutes.

Oh and btw, Keyonte has played over 100 minutes LESS WITH MARKKANEN than either one of Clarkson and Collins. He has actually played less with Markkanen than the minutes that JC-JC-Key lineup has. Also in his 76 minutes with Dunn, Keyonte is +26 in BPM and +18.0 in net rating.

Sooooo.... maybe Hardy just needs to pair him more favourably and not run him with both JC's all the time? Just a thought...

And just to add on the record:
Its wild some of you insist on pissing on a 20 year old rookie instead of his backcourt pair, who is 11.5 years older, has 6% higher usage (hogging the ball more from Lauri as well), is an equally bad defender, has more turnovers, less total assists and nearly equal TS%.

Well done guys.

These are all good points but who is on the court with him shouldn't be the reason he can't make open shots and shouldn't be the reason his the worst player in the league.
He also didnt play with those guys in college and couldn't shoot or defend in college either.

I'm not going to spam the board with keyonte hate threads or anything and I'm rooting for the guy big time but up to this point in his college and pro career he has kinda sucked

Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

JC has played more minutes with Lauri than with Keyonte, so no, you cannot flip the argument. There is a 106 minute discrepancy between the two in minutes played with our best player, which affects team based stats like BPM and rating. Also JC has 16.7 FGA vs Keyonte's 9.5 per game so their volumes are not even comparable, and thus their impact on why those lineups have been inefficient offensively isnt even on the same level. Even Collins has more FGA and than Keyonte, albeit he has lower usage and good efficiency.

Its not about them not being allowed to criticize George. They just consitently insist on pissing on him in every thread, while not pissing on Clarkson nearly as much. There is a massive difference in age/expectation between those two, and while Keyonte has not played great Clarkson has been arguably worse.

So you are double wrong here (which doesnt make a right). Choo-choo goes the little engine that couldn't.

I didn't say Keyonte shot the ball a lot. I said he isn't good. Doesn't really need any qualifiers, he is just a bad ineffective player currently.

 

[fishonjazz]

JC has played more minutes with Lauri than with Keyonte, so no, you cannot flip the argument. There is a 106 minute discrepancy between the two in minutes played with our best player, which affects team based stats like BPM and rating. Also JC has 16.7 FGA vs Keyonte's 9.5 per game so their volumes are not even comparable, and thus their impact on why those lineups have been inefficient offensively isnt even on the same level. Even Collins has more FGA and than Keyonte, albeit he has lower usage and good efficiency.

Its not about them not being allowed to criticize George. They just consitently insist on pissing on him in every thread, while not pissing on Clarkson nearly as much. There is a massive difference in age/expectation between those two, and while Keyonte has not played great Clarkson has been arguably worse.

So you are double wrong here (which doesnt make a right). Choo-choo goes the little engine that couldn't.

Clarkson got pissed on more than key last night by a ton.

Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk

 

[SoberasHotRod]

He had his best game of his season so recently that its even in his "last 5 games" list in NBA.com.... I mean even if most of his points came in the 4th against bench guys he scored 13 of his 30 points going against Chet or SGA in that OKC game where he posted the 30/7/3 line.We were probably too excited after the Summer League and thats the reason we have been disappointed thus far, but on a rookie scale and by comparing to other rookies, he has still outperformed his draft position. Just give it time and dont feed the trolls.

I thought I was pretty clear that I'm still really high on his potential. His highs will be how I view his potential, but his consistency will be how I view his likelihood of hitting his potential.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

The fact is that if we are serious about winning games we need to limit Keyonte's role (minutes or usage).

If you look up rookies with positive net ratings that have a usage % above 15% and were 19 or younger to start the season, the list is nobody. The closest player to meet that criteria is Podz who was 20 to start the season, and then after Podz you have guys that are much older rookies.

FWIW I don't think this Jazz team should be that serious about winning, and should continue to give Keyonte about 20 minutes a game and let him figure things out.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I thought I was pretty clear that I'm still really high on his potential. His highs will be how I view his potential, but his consistency will be how I view his likelihood of hitting his potential.

Some people just want to plug their ears and only see the good signs

 

[HermanG]

These are all good points but who is on the court with him shouldn't be the reason he can't make open shots and shouldn't be the reason his the worst player in the league.
He also didnt play with those guys in college and couldn't shoot or defend in college either.

I'm not going to spam the board with keyonte hate threads or anything and I'm rooting for the guy big time but up to this point in his college and pro career he has kinda sucked

Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk

Couldnt defend in college? Based on what? All I've read from college scouting reports is that he put a lot of effort on defense, and the biggest negative they say is that his height will likely be taken advantage of.

Draftroom report even praised him:

Is a very pesky on-the-ball defender who gives good effort and takes the task personally. Might not be a big steals and blocks guy at the next level but can hold his own against 1’s and 2’s.

Also btw, he shot 41% from 3 in his senior year in high school, so its not like the pure form is the only evidence he can shoot.

For the record, I can also see that he has played poorly. Thats not hard to see. But he is a rookie, who was projected to take few years to adapt to NBA, and people are losing confidence after 26 games played... He is ahead of his projected curve, which is why I'm fighting anyone on this subject, and feel very confident that eventually I will be proven right on this.