jazz identity under Corbin

[Brown Notes]

No he didnt. You did a pretty poor job of defending Sloan, if that was your intention, by making the above statement. Thibodeau had all sorts of problems with Booz and Korver right till the end. You just cannot turn players like that into great defenders suddenly.

How did Dallas suddenly improve into a better defensive team? Hmm..having a healthy Chandler who can do what he does when he is healthy doesnt hurt at all. Kidd and Stevenson were already known to be more than adequate individual defenders. Butler, when healthy is tough as nails. Marion is'nt bad at all either. Ironically, Nowitzki was the one weak link on defense, but he has improved a bit over the years in that department, has atleast become a good team defender even if he isnt a great individual defender.

Bottomline: You can have Larry Brown as the head coach, with Sloan and Thobodeau as his assistants and your defense will still be crap most of the times if your main big men are Boozer and Al and Memo. Lets not forget that Deron was'nt great at dribble penetration defense either. And Miles, the less said the better.

Maybe I used the wrong phrase. The Bulls were a very good defensive team with Boozer and Korver playing a lot. It's a fact that Thibs focused on defensive drills while getting the team ready for the season. But that wouldn't have worked without having Deng, Noah, etc. I didn't say Thibs turned Booze and Korver into great defensive players. My point was that they were able to be part of a great defense because the other guys were so good.

Which, funnily, appears to be your point here. Cheers.

 

[Harcher]

I have no choice, not that I mind, but rep InGrameStrategy.

I have no choice, not that I mind, but rep vj_74

 

[gregbroncs]

Wow - the Sloan rigidity thing is rearing its head again.

1)Did he have set rotations -Yes
2)Do others such as Pop do the same thing? - Yes
3)Did his degree of set rotations change with personnel? - Absolutely

Anyone who watched the Jazz during the S&M era and the non S&M era saw a real difference. Sloan was about winning - period. His rotations his last 3 years in Utah were always being tweaked. Booz got minutes because the Jazz were overall worse with him out of the lineup.

Except that they were not . They were just as good if not better with Boozer out of the lineup.

I said they should have traded him 2 years before they eventually lost him. We could have had Bogut, Chandler, or a bunch of other players straight up for Boozer. I was happy with the AL trade but would much rather have Bogut right now.

 

[vj_74]

Except that they were not . They were just as good if not better with Boozer out of the lineup.

I said they should have traded him 2 years before they eventually lost him. We could have had Bogut, Chandler, or a bunch of other players straight up for Boozer. I was happy with the AL trade but would much rather have Bogut right now.

So now the debate has evolved from whether Sloan should have punished Booz everytime by benching him to whether he should have even had Booz on the team at all. Nice. How about we take it a bit further and argue whether the Jazz should have signed Booz at all in the first place? There is no end to these what-if scenarios. Lets just limit ourselves to what Sloan could have done or what was under his control.

Coming back to the main discussion, I agree with this mostly:

Sloan maybe in his younger days could've been both but since he had S&M he didn't need to be the leader as they provided the leadership and Sloan provided the identity. With the recent teams he didn't have the 1 or 3 players to buy in and be that defensive leader that would force the others to pick up their defense.

I also believe to a lesser degree that with the Jazz' D did need to be tweaked a bit to adjust for the 3pt a line but we did see Sloan try a little zone the past couple of years.

To those who think Sloan should have benched Booz or Memo every time they didnt play D, I wonder why they give Deron a free pass. Its not like as if Deron was all-NBA first team on defense. Ever wonder about that? Now, THAT would have been interesting, if Sloan had actually benched Deron everytime he dogged on defense, which was easily about one-third of the games. Maybe the trade would have ended up happening even earlier, because can you imagine Deron's pouty face if he were benched for non-performance? Sloan would have been an "idiot" again if he had done that because the Jazz clearly dont have better options than Deron for running the offense and they cannot afford to piss off Deron. But somehow Sloan could afford to bench Booz or Okur everytime because those guys were'nt capable of getting pissed off or pouty and they were'nt important at all to the offense, right? Not to mention, by just benching them those players would automatically start being better defensive players while the Jazz would have won a ton of games in the meantime with those two watching from the bench. Mind-boggling.

If only the Mavs would have benched Nowitzki everytime he had a medicore defensive game, they would have had 2 or 3 titles by now. Stupid Don Nelson, Del Harris, Avery Johnson and whoever else who coached the Mavs.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Some coaches bench players to get their attention and change the laziness and bad habits .. and it often works.

You also can't bench a player who is on the disabled list.

 

[Brown Notes]

It also serves no lesson to bench people only to see their replacements be less effective. Losing games has never proved a point, other than the coach sucks.

 

[Zerol]

we need to bring someone like Lawrence Frank in to be the coach that preaches defense like what Thibs did for the Celtics... Brian T Smith was on twitter ranting about the Jazz has a limited 3-man coaching staff even after Sloan/Johnson are gone.

 

[vj_74]

we need to bring someone like Lawrence Frank in to be the coach that preaches defense like what Thibs did for the Celtics... Brian T Smith was on twitter ranting about the Jazz has a limited 3-man coaching staff even after Sloan/Johnson are gone.

what was he exactly ranting about? He should know by now that the Jazz generally like to take their own time with things like this, especially with the offseason and lockout. And as a bonus, $$$ saved for Greggy boy.

 

[zman1527]

Jazz ID under Corbin? No one knows. Unfortunately, that includes Corbin and everyone else. But lets give him 4 or 5 years to figure it out.

 

[jazzrule]

Well it didn't work for the bulls with Boozer. When did he ever play defense even with the benching. My hell how were the jazz going to win if they couldn't score. No one on that team could defend worth a crap exept Ak and Brewer, exept they at times gambled too much which hurt the team defensively at times.

Simply put if the Jazz didn't score the jazz didn't win with or without Boozer.

Never coached before I take it. Of course you benching a player for even a short period of time gets his attention. And Boozer did play better help defense for the Bulls than he ever did for the Jazz. Boozer was capable of playing better defense and Sloan gave him a free pass, which affected the whole team.

 

[vj_74]

Never coached before I take it. Of course you benching a player for even a short period of time gets his attention. And Boozer did play better help defense for the Bulls than he ever did for the Jazz. Boozer was capable of playing better defense and Sloan gave him a free pass, which affected the whole team.

First of all you are wrong when you say Sloan gave Booz " a free pass". I can recall games where Millsap ended up logging heavy mins because Booz couldnt get it going.
All said and done, Jazz didnt have options like the Bulls did. Their offense was heavily dependent on Booz and he delivered more often than not in that department.

And,how much beter was his help defense with the Bulls?
Here is an article from May 2011
https://articles.chicagotribune.com...o--20110527_1_tom-thibodeau-bulls-joakim-noah

For those fans who directed their ire at Carlos Boozer's defensive effort, the Bulls' shocking end to an otherwise stellar season brought maximum response from Boozer in at least one category — disappointment over not playing.

"One hundred percent," Boozer said, when asked if it was hard to sit out the fourth quarter of Thursday's closeout loss. "I wanted to be out there to help my team get a chance to win. But everybody on the bench, we cheered the team on that was out there. We're a team. This is the Bulls versus the Heat, not one or two guys sitting out in the fourth quarter for whatever reason.

"We support each other. That's how we are. You saw me and Jo (Joakim Noah) and everyone else on the bench jumping up and down, supporting the team that's out there. That team was doing a great job. They had a 12-point lead with three minutes to go. If I'm coaching, I'm doing the same thing. I'm riding with those guys because we're winning."

Boozer had only five points on 1-for-6 shooting and six rebounds in the first three quarters, during which he played 26 minutes, 13 seconds. Thanks in large part to his monster Game 3 effort of 26 points and 17 rebounds, he averaged a double-double for the series with 14.4 points and 10.2 rebounds.

But his defensive deficiencies forced the Bulls to cross-match him on Joel Anthony and put Noah on Chris Bosh. And his lack of strong rotations and help defense continued a season-long theme.

The parts in bold tell the story. Bulls just had other options around Boozer. And in spite of that Booz averaged close to 32 mins per gamewith the Bulls. If he was benched often his mins should have been far lower than that. He averaged only 33 mins or so over his tenure with the Jazz so the Jazz didnt play him a whole lot more than the Bulls, despite having limited options

So, next time know your facts before you blurt out something nonsensical