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Handlogten's Heros said:
Yup... its just tough to say Quin should do that when the roster says that is impossible (maybe).
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I get that. Can you turn Bojan into a rangey defender who is at defend 2v3 situations on the weakside? Probably not, and he's not the only one on this roster. We are playing with so many statues on defense and you can't put that all on Quin. But I do think defense is very habitual, and Quin built habits for everyone besides the C to be a statue.

If he doesn't recognize that he's part of the problem we are done for. It's frustrating to see everyone asked to do less on defense when that is clearly our main issue. One of the more disappointing things over the past few seasons is how we've essentially allowed Mitchell to become a complete zero on defense and embrace his new found awful defense. Meanwhile, Monty Williams has Devin Booker taking on the toughest assignments and fairing well in those matchups. Demand more from your players, not less.

I can't disagree if you think Quin had an impossible task defensively with this roster. But I also think his coaching his very much a part of the problem. Give him 5 all NBA defenders and we still get cooked with our defensive principles.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Already rumblings on CP and LA... Phoenix would need to participate in that type of deal... would be similar to what CP did to get to Houston... he opts in and then the Lakers send Kuzma, THT, Schroeder to Phoenix for Paul. The issue is that Phoenix could have like 27M in space should CP just opt out. I think they could do better with their space than with what the Lakers send back.

Westbrook is the other option they are looking at. Same type of deal Kuzma and some sign and trade guys for Westbrook. They'd be paper thin... I would be all for this deal... do it Lakers.
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I just don't think the Lakers work that well with Paul because sharing the ball with LBJ would be tough. I think Westbrook could be the better fit because he has learned the last few years to defer. I'm assuming the Lakers S&T Shroeder with Kuzma and picks for Westbrook.

A starting lineup of
Caruso
Westbrook
KCP
LeBron
AD
THT

That's really freaking tough.
 
It seems like Joe's contract at 1 year $12.5 million is just so much more tradeable than Bogey's 2 years at around $19 million. There just seems to be a lot more players out there that we could match Joes salary with than Bogey's. Just as an example, Joes contract would match perfectly with all 3 of the guy's Andy Larsen said he and Tony Jones were discussing that could be good trade targets for the Jazz (Nance Jr. Covington and Smart) . If one of the two is moved I think it's more likely to be Joe. My preference would be to keep both of them.
 
LoPo said:
I just don't think the Lakers work that well with Paul because sharing the ball with LBJ would be tough. I think Westbrook could be the better fit because he has learned the last few years to defer. I'm assuming the Lakers S&T Shroeder with Kuzma and picks for Westbrook.

A starting lineup of
Caruso
Westbrook
KCP
LeBron
AD
THT

That's really freaking tough.
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Well, they’ll be playing 6 on 5 which should help. But I get your point.
 
KqWIN said:
I get that. Can you turn Bojan into a rangey defender who is at defend 2v3 situations on the weakside? Probably not, and he's not the only one on this roster. We are playing with so many statues on defense and you can't put that all on Quin. But I do think defense is very habitual, and Quin built habits for everyone besides the C to be a statue.

If he doesn't recognize that he's part of the problem we are done for. It's frustrating to see everyone asked to do less on defense when that is clearly our main issue. One of the more disappointing things over the past few seasons is how we've essentially allowed Mitchell to become a complete zero on defense and embrace his new found awful defense. Meanwhile, Monty Williams has Devin Booker taking on the toughest assignments and fairing well in those matchups. Demand more from your players, not less.

I can't disagree if you think Quin had an impossible task defensively with this roster. But I also think his coaching his very much a part of the problem. Give him 5 all NBA defenders and we still get cooked with our defensive principles.
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I agree.. the system is flawed. Its also weird when people seem to think you can't throw multiple looks at a team (I hear our media people seem to indicate that). Watch other teams rotate and its fairly obvious.

I'd also like to see us skew more towards "playmaking" defense than "bend but don't break" defense. Last in steals... low on deflections... never take any charges. Simply using Rudy to cover the rim, force mid range shots, and not fouling will work a lot in the regular season... but not against teams with elite shot makers or that can pull Rudy away from the rim.

I'd also love to see us stop with the automatic Euro foul... if its a true fast break and its just you and one other guy... sure take the foul. We commit that foul so often and I think it really leads to laziness... we also **** it up enough by fouling in the penalty or in a clear path situation that I'm good just not doing it. Just a pet peeve and not anything that really makes a difference.
 
Jingled said:
It seems like Joe's contract at 1 year $12.5 million is just so much more tradeable than Bogey's 2 years at around $19 million. There just seems to be a lot more players out there that we could match Joes salary with than Bogey's. Just as an example, Joes contract would match perfectly with all 3 of the guy's Andy Larsen said he and Tony Jones were discussing that could be good trade targets for the Jazz (Nance Jr. Covington and Smart) . If one of the two is moved I think it's more likely to be Joe. My preference would be to keep both of them.
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I've heard that somewhere else, but I think Bojan's contract could fit with a bunch of concepts

Rozier
Kumza and Gasol
Brogdon
Maybe a Lonzo S&T
Bledsoe
Eric Gordon
Prince
There are a few teams with cap space who could send us less back and take his contract. Chicago, NY, Charlotte.
 
Jingled said:
It seems like Joe's contract at 1 year $12.5 million is just so much more tradeable than Bogey's 2 years at around $19 million. There just seems to be a lot more players out there that we could match Joes salary with than Bogey's. Just as an example, Joes contract would match perfectly with all 3 of the guy's Andy Larsen said he and Tony Jones were discussing that could be good trade targets for the Jazz (Nance Jr. Covington and Smart) . If one of the two is moved I think it's more likely to be Joe. My preference would be to keep both of them.
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Joe is way more valuable to us than another team... although I'm not sure that team knows it. Joe is a family man first and foremost and this would be a major disruption to his family and one that is so temporary that I doubt you get a locked in and committed Joe. Again, maybe the other team hasn't done their homework. Joe will be playing this deal out and heading to Australia.

Bogey is a good trade chip... the delta in salary can be made up with minimum guys if need be.
 
Hypothetically, Joe would fit well on the Lakers. Would give them the extra ball handler and shooter they need. Plus age and possible retirement wouldn’t be a big issue, because it would probably be for their last run before Lebron is really too old.
Having said that, I can think of very few images worse than seeing Joe in a Lakers jersey...
 
LoPo said:
I just don't think the Lakers work that well with Paul because sharing the ball with LBJ would be tough. I think Westbrook could be the better fit because he has learned the last few years to defer. I'm assuming the Lakers S&T Shroeder with Kuzma and picks for Westbrook.

A starting lineup of
Caruso
Westbrook
KCP
LeBron
AD
THT

That's really freaking tough.
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THT would almost certainly be in either sign and trade. They can't give many picks because of the AD deal... so he is part of the sweetner. I just don't think they have enough shooting with their core guys. They'd land some good minimum guys but going more top heavy could be a mistake for the Lakers... especially if the guy they get is Westbrook.

I think Paul is a tremendous fit and Lebron would welcome him running some of the actions. Really helps their spacing a ton too. I just don't think Phoenix should help make it happen unless it was great for them... they'd have other options that could be better.
 
Udidthizz said:
Hypothetically, Joe would fit well on the Lakers. Would give them the extra ball handler and shooter they need. Plus age and possible retirement wouldn’t be a big issue, because it would probably be for their last run before Lebron is really too old.
Having said that, I can think of very few images worse than seeing Joe in a Lakers jersey...
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You need to leave.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
THT would almost certainly be in either sign and trade. They can't give many picks because of the AD deal... so he is part of the sweetner. I just don't think they have enough shooting with their core guys. They'd land some good minimum guys but going more top heavy could be a mistake for the Lakers... especially if the guy they get is Westbrook.

I think Paul is a tremendous fit and Lebron would welcome him running some of the actions. Really helps their spacing a ton too. I just don't think Phoenix should help make it happen unless it was great for them... they'd have other options that could be better.
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I agree with your assessment of the Suns willing to do a deal with the Lakers. I just don't see what LA has that Phoenix will want. I guess THT, Kuzma and Shroeder is better than nothing, but they would have a glut of SF/PF types and no good PG for Booker (I think Shroeder is more of a shoot first PG than true PG).

Paul, LeBron and AD could work, but it could also blow up. AD and Paul are so injury prone. They would be so incredibly thin after the deal. The scary idea is that Paul walks away from $44 million and just signs a full MLE deal with LA. That concepts scares the crap out of me. They would be getting him for free.
 
LoPo said:
I agree with your assessment of the Suns willing to do a deal with the Lakers. I just don't see what LA has that Phoenix will want. I guess THT, Kuzma and Shroeder is better than nothing, but they would have a glut of SF/PF types and no good PG for Booker (I think Shroeder is more of a shoot first PG than true PG).

Paul, LeBron and AD could work, but it could also blow up. AD and Paul are so injury prone. They would be so incredibly thin after the deal. The scary idea is that Paul walks away from $44 million and just signs a full MLE deal with LA. That concepts scares the crap out of me. They would be getting him for free.
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No way he does that... its not just 44M its like $100M he would walk from. If he opts out he gets a big three year deal and then asks out during the year... the guy is on every other commercial... he won't leave that much money on the table.
 
LoPo said:
Sure Giannis is a do almost everything superstar, and Middleton is 2nd tier NBA star, but their main 7 guys are really just grind it out hustle guys.

Jrue - defensive specialist who can sometimes score
Tucker - defensive specialist who rarely scores
Lopez - floor spreading C who plays hard
Conaughton - hustle guy
Portis - all purpose big who plays really hard

All of the 5 above are solid or good players who bust their *** every chance they get. They all can hit the occasional 3 or guard the occasional wing if needed.
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They're also very long and athletic. Something the Jazz don't have at ALL outside of Rudy (Don is athletic AF but not long)
 
I still think Bogey has higher value than Joe around the league, even at his higher salary. Quin certainly sees him as a higher priority player. He's the guy I'd be looking to move for sure.
 
Xthren said:
I agree that second one is a winner. Lamb is always injured but his expiring might be a trade asset.

Holiday and the #13 are the nig pieces. Holiday is an upgrade on our perimeter defense.

Sent from my SM-N960U using JazzFanz mobile app
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Was just seeing responses to these hypotheticals from Pacer fan:

-said definitely not #2, were more open to #3, but esp. #1.
 
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