Jazz Offseason Plan

[Keefe]

I definitely agree with you. Playing a little devil's advocate, I think our front office would be correct in arguing that no matter what fringe moves we made, we weren't winning a title with two of our All Stars injured.
Hopefully the front office is able to see past the injuries and realize we need to be much better on the margins to put ourselves in the best position to win a title.

Sorry but if the front office actually made that argument, it’s dumb as ****. They aren’t psychic and didn’t know Mike and Donnie were going to get hurt. Looking at our roster, our holes were painfully ****ing obvious. The fact that they didn’t address them is a major cause for concern. Whether we would’ve won a title or not had we made a move or two is completely immaterial here and if the FO plays it that way, **** them.

 

[LoPo]

No, we really don’t. It’s dumb. We don’t need a liability on the court ala Simmons or arguably, Gobert. Hell, he could literally never play minutes with Gobert because the offense would be so limited. We need guys who can do a bit of everything, not one thing really well and suck at most else. There’s a reason he was third on the Knicks depth chart at a position at which they’re terrible. I’d FAR rather have Payton, another very good defender but someone who can other things like rebound (8.1%) and pass (32.9%) at surprisingly very high rates. Hell, he’s been on such bad teams, in a real system like ours, I actually think he could shoot 34-35% from three. But Frankie just blows.

We need perimeter defending more than anything else on our roster. To discount a guy for his lack of offense when we have one of the best offensive units in the league is dumb in my opinion.

Sometimes, it takes elite defenders time to figure it out on the offensive end. Bruce Bowen bounced around for years. PJ Tucker was 27 before he started to establish himself in the league. Neither guy was a marksman or ball handler.

Frank Ntilikina hasn't even turned 23 yet, but there is statistical evidence throughout his first 4 years that he is an elite perimeter defender. Despite Thibs shelving him in NY this year, there were still tons of people begging for the Knicks to put Frank on Trae because he shuts Trae down. But even with home court advantage, Atlanta led by Trae disposed of NY pretty quickly. You don't think we could have used that defense against Jamal Murray? Or JA Morant? Or Reggie Jackson?

We need guys with elite skills and we definitely need perimeter defenders. Frank is worth a shot.

There are a few players I have been pining for on here for years, and we have missed the boat on not getting them: Batum, PJ Tucker, Rozier, Olynyk, and others. We can't do the same with Frank especially if he's coming at a minimum price tag.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

Probably would not be a bad idea to trade the #30 for two or more second round picks
That would save some guaranteed money for cap purposes

I keep thinking this, and then I go look at the draft last year and after like pick #35, it’s a ghost town… No one after that seems to have done anything of note. And like every pick 25-30 panned out last year except our pick.

If we move the pick to trade down, I hope we also accomplish some other objective like getting off Fav’s contract, or as part of a deal to add a useful rotation piece.

 

[Keefe]

We need perimeter defending more than anything else on our roster. To discount a guy for his lack of offense when we have one of the best offensive units in the league is dumb in my opinion.

Sometimes, it takes elite defenders time to figure it out on the offensive end. Bruce Bowen bounced around for years. PJ Tucker was 27 before he started to establish himself in the league. Neither guy was a marksman or ball handler.

Frank Ntilikina hasn't even turned 23 yet, but there is statistical evidence throughout his first 4 years that he is an elite perimeter defender. Despite Thibs shelving him in NY this year, there were still tons of people begging for the Knicks to put Frank on Trae because he shuts Trae down. But even with home court advantage, Atlanta led by Trae disposed of NY pretty quickly. You don't think we could have used that defense against Jamal Murray? Or JA Morant? Or Reggie Jackson?

We need guys with elite skills and we definitely need perimeter defenders. Frank is worth a shot.

There are a few players I have been pining for on here for years, and we have missed the boat on not getting them: Batum, PJ Tucker, Rozier, Olynyk, and others. We can't do the same with Frank especially if he's coming at a minimum price tag.

We don’t need elite perimeter defenders. We need high end (or elite) perimeter defenders who also have shown other attributes imo. I don’t think we can sit there and develop Frankie for 2-3 years.

 

[LoPo]

We don’t need elite perimeter defenders. We need high end (or elite) perimeter defenders who also have shown other attributes imo. I don’t think we can sit there and develop Frankie for 2-3 years.

It would be great to have a roster full of solid 2 way players, but that's simply just not realistic. And especially considering our lack of assets, my opinion is that we go get a specialist on the cheap if we can get one.

We don't have a development player on our entire roster outside of Doke and maybe Hughes. We have #30 this year and no 1st next year.

He would be one of my first calls after Conley in free agency. If we can get him for minimum, I guarantee he will help us at least 8-10 minutes a game.

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[Keefe]

It would be great to have a roster full of solid 2 way players, but that's simply just not realistic. And especially considering our lack of assets, my opinion is that we go get a specialist on the cheap if we can get one.

We don't have a development player on our entire roster outside of Doke and maybe Hughes. We have #30 this year and no 1st next year.

He would be one of my first calls after Conley in free agency. If we can get him for minimum, I guarantee he will help us at least 8-10 minutes a game.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

If we lose Conley and the FO uses its first call on Frankie, every one of those ****ers should be fired on the spot.

 

[Qman]

I disagree with Wes. I think Frank Ntilikina would be a excellent player for us at the minimum. His defensive abilities would be a boon. Offensively I think he can reach Royce O'Neal levels of effectiveness. And if it doesn't work out you haven't lost much.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If we lose Conley and the FO uses its first call on Frankie, every one of those ****ers should be fired on the spot.

Frankie is a text later in the day guy.

 

[NAOS]

I disagree with Wes. I think Frank Ntilikina would be a excellent player for us at the minimum. His defensive abilities would be a boon. Offensively I think he can reach Royce O'Neal levels of effectiveness. And if it doesn't work out you haven't lost much.

Wow, that’s Cleveland Steamer levels of disrespect for what Royce has accomplished

 

[infection]

If we lose Conley and the FO uses its first call on Frankie, every one of those ****ers should be fired on the spot.

Clearly you don't understand how this works. We have no control over who calls us. Our phone doesn't have a keypad. Just a receiver.

 

[Keefe]

I disagree with Wes. I think Frank Ntilikina would be a excellent player for us at the minimum. His defensive abilities would be a boon. Offensively I think he can reach Royce O'Neal levels of effectiveness. And if it doesn't work out you haven't lost much.

He’s not an easy no for me. He’s just not a rush out and sign this guy like Lopo is suggesting. He’s far too limited offensively. Look at Elfrid Payton’s assist numbers. His rebound numbers. 6.2 and 4.3 per game in just 28 minutes per game for his career. Add in the fact that he’s really good on defense. And actually shot 36% from 3 one year.

Yeah, Frankie is just 22 and shot 41% from 3 last year on a small sample size but he can’t run an offense. He doesn’t rebound…his offense is just bad.

 

[Keefe]

Clearly you don't understand how this works. We have no control over who calls us. Our phone doesn't have a keypad. Just a receiver.

View attachment 10976

I just assumed we were using pagers and Dennis didn’t know the incoming page #’s so he wasn’t calling people back.

 

[LoPo]

Wow, that’s Cleveland Steamer levels of disrespect for what Royce has accomplished

I'm one of the biggest Royce fans out there, but when he started with us at over 24 years of age, he was very, very rough. He got better defensively and much better offensively.

Frank is already a comparable on ball defender, but his offense needs work just like Royce's did. The good thing? - Frank is almost two years younger than Royce was when we started his development.

 

[KqWIN]

Stanley Johnson and Winslow are the defense first guys I would probably target at the minimum first before Frank. Those guys are probably even worse offensively but are more established defensively and can guard more positions.

I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but even if we surround Gobert with 4 all NBA defenders we are going to get crushed with Quin’s defensive principles. More than anything else we need him to get over his stubbornness and improve.

I keep saying this because there isn’t much room to make changes with the roster. All there really is to do is hope Conley wants to come back and that Ryan Smiths tolerance to pay tax is strong. Minimum guys aren’t going to save this team. We can’t be miles behind in strategy and that’s where we are with Quin. That’s where change and improvement has to happen.

 

[LoPo]

As a franchise, we have to stop prioritizing the big fish, and waiting too late to get the small fish.

If Conley stays, we have to go after any good minimum guy we can. The reason I prioritize Frank is his clear connections to both Don AND Rudy. Signing Frank is not meant to be the only solution to our woeful perimeter defense. He is meant to be part of the perimeter defense solution, gives us a developmental player, should be very cheap and should bring camaraderie with Rudy and Don.

I agree with @KqWIN that we need to be looking at guys like Stanley Johnson and Justise Winslow too. Those two guys would be there to help guard the guys like LeBron, AD, Durant, PG, Kawhi, etc. I think we look at guys like Dunn, Ntilikina and similar to guard guys like Murray, Booker, Paul, etc.

We need two more good perimeter defenders AND bring back Conley. Gonna have to do it on the cheap and early in free agency.

 

[fishonjazz]

As a franchise, we have to stop prioritizing the big fish, and waiting too late to get the small fish.

If Conley stays, we have to go after any good minimum guy we can. The reason I prioritize Frank is his clear connections to both Don AND Rudy. Signing Frank is not meant to be the only solution to our woeful perimeter defense. He is meant to be part of the perimeter defense solution, gives us a developmental player, should be very cheap and should bring camaraderie with Rudy and Don.

I agree with @KqWIN that we need to be looking at guys like Stanley Johnson and Justise Winslow too. Those two guys would be there to help guard the guys like LeBron, AD, Durant, PG, Kawhi, etc. I think we look at guys like Dunn, Ntilikina and similar to guard guys like Murray, Booker, Paul, etc.

We need two more good perimeter defenders AND bring back Conley. Gonna have to do it on the cheap and early in free agency.

Would love to pick up Winslow. Seems like he has jazz DNA too

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[Handlogten's Heros]

Clearly you don't understand how this works. We have no control over who calls us. Our phone doesn't have a keypad. Just a receiver.

View attachment 10976

Actually the way it worked is we had multiple GMs... so in order to maximize efficiency JZ had outbound duties but DL had the inbound duties. Problem was when the calls were coming in DL was at a Baylor alumni events. Go Bears!

So word is JZ has outbound, Wade takes inbound calls, Ryan covers twitter DMs, and Ainge works shady back channels with burner phones. There is an opening to cover the Fax machine that was Friedman's area of responsibility.

 

[LoPo]

Would love to pick up Winslow. Seems like he has jazz DNA too

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I agree. I have been a fan for a long, long time. He can do a little bit of everything.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I agree. I have been a fan for a long, long time. He can do a little bit of everything.

Mostly he creates offensive rebounding opportunities and development opportunities for other players...

The guy is never healthy and was so bad when he was. As a minimum guy sure... but I think we need calm down on the assessment. He's had one solid year that may have been a shooting fluke. He's one injury plagued year away from being Dante Exum. It wasn't just his shooting that was bad this year... it was like he forgot how to play basketball as well.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

To really buy Winslow he needed to grow off his age 22 season... he has been mostly hurt but has regressed so hard when he was healthy that I'd be shocked if he delivered on even 50% or his potential.