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Jazz Offseason Plan

Handlogten's Heros said:
It isn’t simple at all. Saying we need youth is great that is simple… getting that youth is hard AF… literally the hardest thing to do is find young talent. It’s like saying it’s simple to solve money problems… just need a billion dollars. Great now how do we get it.

Only way for us to do it is get monumentally lucky with #30… or sell off our win now parts for guys that may be good in a year or two. We won’t get blue chip young talent with Bogey or Joe or Mike. Our best option is to play it out with the hand we’ve been dealt… hope you nail a first or second rounder but it’s likely it doesn’t work… unless you have THE dominant guy in the league most things are destined for failure. In three years if we don’t have a lot of hope… be honest with ourselves and tear it down. Donovan is already grumpy and we have the best record in the league… what happens when we trade our good players for mediocre ones that are younger and we get the 8 seed? He asks out next year instead of three years from now.

If a great deal comes up for Rudy this season or next offseason that allows you to pair Donovan with a great talent that is closer to his age then go for it. As of right now… the window is 2-3 years and then reset.
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I understand

I just think we need to turn Bojan into perimeter defense or youthful offense or both.

And I don't want to sign another ancient player with valuable exceptions. Ed Davis, Jeff Green, and Derrick Favors should have been focused on more youth.

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Here’s my beef on the “move to youth” or “get someone on Donovan’s timeline” thoughts. Right now over the next couple years, maybe we have like a 20% chance to win a title. Maybe one would argue that’s too high, but ask yourself what kind of title percentage team you’d like. Now ask yourself what the odds are of getting that team by moving to prospects rather than win-now players. We’ve done the prospects thing for a long, long time. We’ve gotten incredibly lucky with two of our prospects, and they’re current in their prime. We were the first seed. Yeah, we have a lot of weaknesses and didn’t have a good playoff showing. 6 weeks ago the Bucks were huge chokers and failures and needed to trade Giannis and he should have never re-signed. Narratives change fast and they change on the smallest of sample sizes. So we significantly retool and what do we get our title percentage up to over a few years? 25% 30%? Now, more importantly, what are the odds of landing that team? You probably have a 25-35% (generous) chance of being able to build a team that has maybe a 5-10% better chance of going all the way than presently constituted. To me that’s nonsense. Maybe you catch lightening in a bottle, but more likely you **** this up and ruin our best chance in over two decades.

tl;dr you take a large risk for a potential marginal benefit.
 
infection said:
Here’s my beef on the “move to youth” or “get someone on Donovan’s timeline” thoughts. Right now over the next couple years, maybe we have like a 20% chance to win a title. Maybe one would argue that’s too high, but ask yourself what kind of title percentage team you’d like. Now ask yourself what the odds are of getting that team by moving to prospects rather than win-now players. We’ve done the prospects thing for a long, long time. We’ve gotten incredibly lucky with two of our prospects, and they’re current in their prime. We were the first seed. Yeah, we have a lot of weaknesses and didn’t have a good playoff showing. 6 weeks ago the Bucks were huge chokers and failures and needed to trade Giannis and he should have never re-signed. Narratives change fast and they change on the smallest of sample sizes. So we significantly retool and what do we get our title percentage up to over a few years? 25% 30%? Now, more importantly, what are the odds of landing that team? You probably have a 25-35% (generous) chance of being able to build a team that has maybe a 5-10% better chance of going all the way than presently constituted. To me that’s nonsense. Maybe you catch lightening in a bottle, but more likely you **** this up and ruin our best chance in over two decades.
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Agreed

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infection said:
Here’s my beef on the “move to youth” or “get someone on Donovan’s timeline” thoughts. Right now over the next couple years, maybe we have like a 20% chance to win a title. Maybe one would argue that’s too high, but ask yourself what kind of title percentage team you’d like. Now ask yourself what the odds are of getting that team by moving to prospects rather than win-now players. We’ve done the prospects thing for a long, long time. We’ve gotten incredibly lucky with two of our prospects, and they’re current in their prime. We were the first seed. Yeah, we have a lot of weaknesses and didn’t have a good playoff showing. 6 weeks ago the Bucks were huge chokers and failures and needed to trade Giannis and he should have never re-signed. Narratives change fast and they change on the smallest of sample sizes. So we significantly retool and what do we get our title percentage up to over a few years? 25% 30%? Now, more importantly, what are the odds of landing that team? You probably have a 25-35% (generous) chance of being able to build a team that has maybe a 5-10% better chance of going all the way than presently constituted. To me that’s nonsense. Maybe you catch lightening in a bottle, but more likely you **** this up and ruin our best chance in over two decades.
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I'm just saying to trade Bojan and sign more guys like Bobby Portis than guys like Ed Davis or Favors.

This is all if Conley returns. Largely run it back but add more youth and potential rather than guys who we hope recreate their old glory days.

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Any chance Charlotte would trade us Rozier for Bojan and Favors?

They played Biyombo 20mpg and Zeller 21mpg last year. We played Favors 15 mpg. Favors was clearly the better player than Biyombo who had a $3.5 million contract. Zellar's stats were slightly better than Favors, but he was making $15 per year.

Charlotte has the cap space to take Bojan and Favors for Rozier. They already have PG options (Ball and Graham) but lack good players at PF and C.

If Rozier wasn't expiring, they probably don't do this deal, but would it make sense if they did?





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jom2003 said:
this sounds like the type of move Danny Ainge would do. not sure about JZ, aka DL's sidekick.

But i like the idea of it. Get John Collins then immediately go grab Malik Monk as JC's replacement. Same exact type of heat check player who can get you a bunch of buckets off the bench. Then all of a sudden we have a young team again structured to compete for the next three or four years instead of becoming finished business in two.
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Here here. I wanna see John Collins in a Jazz uni


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The best chance to win was last year with so many things stacking in our favor. We will never have that chance again. Two max players at the cost of one, pandemic, injuries around the league....it's never happening again. You could say the injury bug ended up biting us too, but we clearly had enough talent to advance and just failed to perform.

I would agree that we have a small 2-3 year window here before Donovan demands out. I don't think we need to hang onto everything we have to maximize year one of this window....but all signs point to that. Personally, I wouldn't look for a youth movement, but I do think we have so overvalued vets that we could/should try to move on from for younger, undervalued players.
 
oneye said:
The youth thing is probably less true than some of us think. Locke made a good point in, who is young on the Bucks? Giannis is 26, but the rest of that roster is pretty old. Mainly because stars and veteran, not youth, wins in the postseason for the most part. Most rosters trying to contend are actually rarely young, or getting any meaningful play from young guys when it matters. Stars and vets win.
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Bucks was clearly in a win now mode and I'm sure none of bucks fans care about what happen next season since they've already won it. Same as the 2019 Raptors.

The issue with the Jazz is that they forced themselves into a win now mode after the Conley trade then couldn't get out of the second round. So they now have to plan for the future with Conley's deal expiring in a few days.
 
jom2003 said:
Bucks was clearly in a win now mode and I'm sure none of bucks fans care about what happen next season since they've already won it. Same as the 2019 Raptors.

The issue with the Jazz is that they forced themselves into a win now mode after the Conley trade then couldn't get out of the second round. So they now have to plan for the future with Conley's deal expiring in a few days.
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I think Mike re-signs from most of what national media is saying. Marc Stein reported yesterday that he’s heard nothing in regards to Mike leaving Utah. But I have seen a $25 million a year figure on Mike and if that’s the case that better be 2 years with a TEAM option on the 3rd, to where you can run for a title next season, and trade him as an expiring next summer. I think Mike does have at least a couple really good years in him. He was actually really good aside from that stupid hamstring, and someone like CP3 had hamstring problems as well but finally remained healthy at age 36. It’s all such fluke weird ****. $25 million on a 3 year contract under player control would make me very uncomfortable though. If you could get him to do it I’d love like 1 and 1. With a team option. Then $25 million wouldn’t bother me at all.
 
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