jazz pick up CJ's option
- Thread starter Captain Lobster
- Start date
CJ outplayed Hayward most of the season, but the board only remembers the last 15 or so games.
CJ, with his 5 years NBA experience, barely outplayed a rookie most of the season, and with 10 games left, the rookie was better than him. By the end of the season, it wasn't even close.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
It also doesn't remember Hayward's last 2 weeks very well.
Barely? Hayward looked like a lost puppy for most of the season.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Really? In the last two weeks (the 7 games in April), CJ and Hayward put up the following numbers (per game):
Hayward
7 Games
35.9 minutes
16.4 Points
3.0 Rebs (4-17-21)
2.6 Assists
0.9 Steals
0.1 Blocks
1.9 TO
2.4 PF
.581 FG (43-74)
.571 3PT (12-21)
.773 FT (17-22)
CJ
6 Games
26.8 Minutes
10.0 Points
2.3 Rebounds (4-10-14)
2.2 Assists
0.7 Steals
0.7 Blocks
1.8 TO
3.3 PF
.371 FG (23-62)
.167 3PT (3-18)
.786 FT (11-14)
If that's what we get from Hayward moving forward, awesome (especially if it comes with half decent defense). If that's what we get from CJ, ick (CJ scored 10 points per game on 10.3 fga/g, Gordo scored 16.4 ppg on 10.6 fga/g...yikes.).
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
No question Hayward played better than CJ over the last 2 weeks. CJ was horrible. What people forget is the way Hayward would trade good games with bad games, or more specifically passive games with aggressive games. When Hayward gets himself 10 or more shots, he puts up better all around numbers. When he fades into the wallpaper on offense, he doesn't do as well.
//r00t 4 Jazz
Well-Known Member
I know percentages doesn't tell the complete story, especially because their defined roles are different but if you look at last year and almost every year AK's stats are better across the board other then CJ's FT%. Also, although he's not the guy you want shooting the ball he has hit a few clutch 3's and 2pt shots in his day.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Dude, I usually love your posts but this notion is just absurd. Hayward was a rookie. C.J. was a six year NBA vet, three years Hayward's senior, who's still yet to "figure it out."
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
I, too, like Kiri at that price--which is perhaps a million or below his true value at the peak :| ...
Chances are, though, that AK will be elsewhere by the time the lockout is over--unless he signs a one-year contract only. No-brainer for him to start shopping; he doesn't have a deal anyway.
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/7/4/2258047/andrei-kirilenko-free-agent-russia-spain-nba-lockout
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I think CJ figured a lot of things out last season, but he ended it badly. But for most of this board, how he ended the season has become his WHOLE season. CJ made a lot of strides, particularly in his driving game, that I think he can build on to make the next jump.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
As a secondary issue, I don't think a lot of people really understand how bad our offense was last year and how that affects guys' shooting percentages. Per 82games, Al took 21% of his shots from 21 - 24 seconds on the clock, CJ 20, and Sap 17. Virtually every NBA player shoots exponentially worse at 21 +. They shoot best at the front of the clock (breaks and easy looks)
Now contrast that with the better teams in the NBA this year:
Dallas: Dirk 16, Terry 15, Butler 14, Kidd 18, Barea 21
Lakers: Bryant 14, Bynum 15, Gasol 16, Odom 13
Bulls: Rose 12, Deng 16, Boozer 15
OKC: Durant 13, Westbrook 12, Harden 16
Spurs: Ginobli 11, Duncan 17, Parker 15
Nearly all good teams barely have one guy at Sap's 17 and no 20's. We had 2 guys in the 20's. What that says to me is we ran a lot of late clocks at which point the ball often wound up in the hands of the 3 guys you'd expect to be taking those shots. The point is if we run a better offense, and all three of those guys were taking a lot less shots at 21+, we might see a lot of improvement.
Now contrast that with the better teams in the NBA this year:
Dallas: Dirk 16, Terry 15, Butler 14, Kidd 18, Barea 21
Lakers: Bryant 14, Bynum 15, Gasol 16, Odom 13
Bulls: Rose 12, Deng 16, Boozer 15
OKC: Durant 13, Westbrook 12, Harden 16
Spurs: Ginobli 11, Duncan 17, Parker 15
Nearly all good teams barely have one guy at Sap's 17 and no 20's. We had 2 guys in the 20's. What that says to me is we ran a lot of late clocks at which point the ball often wound up in the hands of the 3 guys you'd expect to be taking those shots. The point is if we run a better offense, and all three of those guys were taking a lot less shots at 21+, we might see a lot of improvement.
I wonder, could the Jazz offense been hardly even recognizable because the were suddenly left with a plodding guy that can't do anything offensively besides stop the ball and kill the play, or pass out and restart the play? Or maybe it was that combined with relying on wing with AK-level mental fragility (without AK's talent, instincts, size, or intelligence) to chuck uncontrollably (his usage rate and TS%/PPS are totally out of wack)?
And there has always been a huge contingent of CJ doubters/haters. And for good reason. He has unbelievably good games less than half the time that only SORT OF offsets the garbage he puts up in the rest of them. The nice summary on the guy is that you can't count on him. At this stage, keeping him is a waste of minutes/roster slot and money.
And there has always been a huge contingent of CJ doubters/haters. And for good reason. He has unbelievably good games less than half the time that only SORT OF offsets the garbage he puts up in the rest of them. The nice summary on the guy is that you can't count on him. At this stage, keeping him is a waste of minutes/roster slot and money.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Yes, he played more minutes than ever but yet went down in turnovers and fouls per game. That's a positive. He had solid rebounding numbers. His blocks and steals were career highs though not really different per minute than the year before. His passing leaves a lot to be desired though at just 1.7 per game. All I can live with. But his volume chucking and sucking has got to stop. His shooting percentages are freakin' awful and this must improve and it must improve this year or he can walk.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with anything you said. I just don't think CJ's volume of shots had nearly as much to do with him wanting to chuck shots so much as he was routinely counted on to create offense on the second unit. With a better offense, his volume will come down and we'll read lots of posts about how CJ is "taking better shots."
GVC
Well-Known Member
Well, like, duh.
He is a rookie. Inconsistency is expected as a rookie. It is not expected, and should not be tolerated, as a 4, 5, or 6 year pro, I don't care what your chronological age is. CJ has gotten worse every year. That is undeniable. Hayward already shows signs of being better than CJ, even if he remains as inconsistent as he was last year. He still shot better than CJ, was far more efficient, and showed better instincts on defense than CJ. And in the end, they were both, at the very worst, evenly inconsistent. I would take an inconsistent Hayward over an inconsistent CJ any day.
This might all change next year (the next year they play anyway). Hayward may bomb out and become crap. But with a 4 year track record of steady decline despite more PT and more favorable roles, I do not hold out much hope for CJ getting any better. My prediction is that Hayward will by far be the better player at the same point in his career.
His inconsistency started not even 1/3 of the way into the season. And in the end, when there was nothing to lose, he should have stepped up his game in a big way, taking things over and proving his dominance. Instead, with absolutely no pressure anymore since we obviously were not making the playoffs, he faded harder than he ever has, and Hayward is the one who takes advantage and shows he might have the ability to occasionally take things over. Hayward looked confidant and happy, CJ looked scared and dejected. None of that is a good sign.
