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Jazz Sign Rudy Gay

KqWIN said:
Let's be clear here, going small does nothing against a 5out lineup if you can't stay in front of the ball and you have no rotations. We could have had prime Draymond Green against LAC and we're still getting absolutely slaughtered because we got cooked on the ball and everyone else was a statue besides Gobert.

Playoff defense isn't about going big or small, it's about being connected on a string and covering space. You're going to have to send help on the ball in some way or another, it's inevitable. Clippers had multiple All Defense perimeter defenders and still had to send double teams against Mitchell. What matters is your ability to recover after you send help.

It's up to Quin to instill the defense principles to help and recover. Gobert is the best ever at defending 2v1 in the PnR, but there is no one on the planet that can cover the rim and the corner 3 at the same time while his teammates stand around.

I do believe in Gay's ability to defend bigs and multiple positions, but the only thing saving this defense is a collective effort and that has to start with Quin. If we continue the swiss cheese, no help defense we are setting ourselves up for another historic defensive collapse.
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Yeah. It really is a Quin issue, which is why the bigger move this off-season is his adjusting. That’s kinda like hanging out hopes on Donovan growing 3 inches.
 
infection said:
Yeah. It really is a Quin issue, which is why the bigger move this off-season is his adjusting. That’s kinda like hanging out hopes on Donovan growing 3 inches.
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I've been saying Quin is the main roadblock all summer, but tbf I'm sure Quin is thinking his closing lineup has 3 defenders who can't do anything and his top perimeter defender is getting cooked by Reggie Jackson.

If he starts closing some games with Gay at the 4 so we can cover more space and actually play a connected defense we're in business. I do feel that if we're playing Mitchell, Conley, and Bogey our defensive strategy is going to be "hope they miss" no matter what.
 
KqWIN said:
I've been saying Quin is the main roadblock all summer, but tbf I'm sure Quin is thinking his closing lineup has 3 defenders who can't do anything and his top perimeter defender is getting cooked by Reggie Jackson.

If he starts closing some games with Gay at the 4 so we can cover more space and actually play a connected defense we're in business. I do feel that if we're playing Mitchell, Conley, and Bogey our defensive strategy is going to be "hope they miss" no matter what.
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I think the biggest issue is that he’s not willing to commit and tries to straddle two different strategies… or tries to run the same thing with everyone, but instead of having Rudy pick his poison, he puts him in a situation where he can’t do either. That part is just brain dead.
 
Gay played 250 possessions this year as a small ball 5 and 236 possessions last year for a total of about 100 minutes.

He is a +7 in those minutes and that was on the Spurs who haven’t been very good.
 
KqWIN said:
Let's be clear here, going small does nothing against a 5out lineup if you can't stay in front of the ball and you have no rotations. We could have had prime Draymond Green against LAC and we're still getting absolutely slaughtered because we got cooked on the ball and everyone else was a statue besides Gobert.

Playoff defense isn't about going big or small, it's about being connected on a string and covering space. You're going to have to send help on the ball in some way or another, it's inevitable. Clippers had multiple All Defense perimeter defenders and still had to send double teams against Mitchell. What matters is your ability to recover after you send help.

It's up to Quin to instill the defense principles to help and recover. Gobert is the best ever at defending 2v1 in the PnR, but there is no one on the planet that can cover the rim and the corner 3 at the same time while his teammates stand around.

I do believe in Gay's ability to defend bigs and multiple positions, but the only thing saving this defense is a collective effort and that has to start with Quin. If we continue the swiss cheese, no help defense we are setting ourselves up for another historic defensive collapse.
Click to expand...
Yep, exactly what I was thinking ... going small against small lineups is good only if going small actually provides something for you... if the smalls you have can actually stay with their assignment. Quin needs to put emphasis on the ability of the perimeter players to play with better effort and better rotations. Just putting Gay at the 5 accomplishes nothing, besides giving yet another target to abuse if the opponent think they have advantage there.

I thought we had to get better on 3 levels this off-season - better talent and versatility to guard perimeter ballhandlers(nope), better focus from the coaching staff on perimeter defense... possibly deploying different schemes(we will see about that, but the personnel we are getting doesn't suggest that), better effort/commitment and overall defensive development from the players(we will see about that). Overall I'm not very optimistic that very much will change. :(
 
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stitches said:
Yep, exactly what I was thinking ... going small against small lineups is good only if going small actually provides something for you... if the smalls you have can actually stay with their assignment. Quin needs to put emphasis on the ability of the perimeter players to play with better effort and better rotations. Just putting Gay at the 5 accomplishes nothing, besides giving yet another target to abuse if the opponent think they have advantage there.

I thought we had to get better on 3 levels this off-season - better talent and versatility to guard perimeter ballhandlers(nope), better focus from the coaching staff on perimeter defense... possibly deploying different schemes(we will see about that, but the personnel we are getting doesn't suggest that), better effort/commitment and overall defensive development from the players(we will see about that). Overall I'm not very optimistic that very much will change. :(
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Someone else said it in a different thread, but it does make me feel uneasy that we have the same tools for the same defense. It's going to be very easy for Quin to do the same thing and cruise to a top 3 defense during the RS. We know what happens in the playoffs...The only difference is that maybe Gay will play some 5, but like you said, it's meaningless unless the defensive principles change. If Reggie Jackson can straight line drive past everyone on the court it doesn't matter if we have 5 perimeter guys. It honestly felt like Gobert was the only one who had a chance to defend anyone 1v1 and once they went away from attacking him directly it was over.

One thing I would add to your list is that we need better defender off the ball. I don't think it's possible to guard 1v1 these days. You're going to have to help somehow and that means you need guys with length, athleticism, smart rotations ect behind the play. Rudy Gay is an upgrade I suppose, but 35 year old Rudy Gay is not going to save your defense. I fear that there's a greater chance he falls into Jazz basketball and defends the way we have the past few seasons.

He's also just a backup. The closing lineup is the same. That means Conley, Mitchell, and Bogey all on the court at the same time. None of them can guard, none of them cover space off the ball, and you're lucky if one of them is able to help on the boards at all. O'Neale takes the toughest assignments, but he still gets cooked by the non tough assignments. I think we need to make a trade to address that closing lineup. We have so much scoring, Gay gives us even more. We need to trade Bogey/Clarkson for someone who can provide defense and potentially close games.
 
KqWIN said:
Someone else said it in a different thread, but it does make me feel uneasy that we have the same tools for the same defense. It's going to be very easy for Quin to do the same thing and cruise to a top 3 defense during the RS. We know what happens in the playoffs...
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The playoffs are really different, but I also think we'd be a totally different team this playoffs if Mike and Donovan both played (and Rudy Gay will be a huge upgrade over Niang or whatever). Like for many other teams, it will come down to being healthy a lot. We could've played Bucks this summer if Mike Conley was good to go, after all.
 
AlaskanAssassin said:
Good looking squad. Definitely need a 3rd PG to fill in when Conley inevitably needs some time off. What is Raul Neto up to?
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Decent looking squad. Definitely did not fix our GIGANTIC GLARING ****ING HOLE WITH NO PERIMETER DEFENSE, but, you know, decent squad.
 
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