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JD Vance

JimLes said:
But this isn't how the market works at all. Nor did the government create the initial issue.

For one, the market may not simply drive wages up, but rather force those companies to leave. In a globalized economy, those factories and plants don't need to be in Springfield. They don't even need to be in the US, and Canada is just a couple of hundred kilometres from Springfield. Not just any Canada either, but the part with all the people.

And again, the government didn't create this. You could argue the companies in question did by hiring cheaper labour, but labour follows jobs. If the factories were opened elsewhere, the immigrants would go to those places.

Remember that the reason these companies moved into Springfield was that the local government was desperately trying to attract them and revitalized the place. This is a city that's been steadily losing population over the past 50 years. I'm sure the companies were offered something by the city to move to that area, but then if that didn't happen, there would still be no jobs for the locals.

I get that you think the ideal situation would have been for all these companies to come into Springfield, only hire locals at high wages, and do all this out of the goodness of their hearts, but it's not realistic. Huge swathes of the country are demographically and economically dying, and people are upset about anything that even remotely helps improve that.

I mean, what are you suggesting should've been done here since you didn't want Haitians in? How can Springfield gain jobs and population and expanding its tax base without this?


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You make some solid points here Jim but you are overplaying your hand. You might have top pair but definitely no full house.

Globalization isn’t a catchphrase meaning all production goes to the lowest priced labor. There are 7 billion people on this spinning rock and the vast majority are poorer to extremely poorer than US citizens. The way you’re making this sound, every job would have left the United States decades ago. Truth is, there is much more to business than labor costs, many service jobs cannot be offshored (≈70% of GDP), nor can much of the production for that matter, and foreign trade is a relatively minor portion of US GDP.

Essentially, you are attempting to force an ill-formed macro perspective onto micro (individual businesses) as if it means anything at all, which it doesn’t in the majority of present situations.
 
MVP said:
I drive a truck. But I fish and need to tow the boat pretty much every weekend during summer and no SUW( except of maybe Expedition ) can match towing ability of a truck.
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Ya I had a Silverado up until 2022 to pull my trailer.
I hated driving it though and hated parking it and hated that it took up so much of my garage to the point that I decided to downsize to a pop up trailer and sell my Silverado. So now I drive a 4runner which I like much much better. I have so much more room in my garage now. Plus I love that I can go on overnight fishing trips and sleep in the 4runner. Just went on one earlier this week (Monday night) and I'm taking the family camping in the popup next week. (I do miss our old trailer though. Don't miss the Silverado at all)

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I saw a lot of praise for the civility of the VP debate. Well, there would be a lot more civility if we simply get rid of trump. He is the one that makes up names for everyone (sleepy Joe, Crooked Hillary, Lyin/Crazy Kamala... If you google "trump nicknames for opponents 66 results come up lol). He calls his political opponents wives fat.
“Kamala is mentally impaired,” he said at a rally in Wisconsin, later adding, “Joe Biden became mentally impaired — Kamala was born that way.”
“She is a very dumb person, and we can’t do that. We can’t do that. I don’t want to be rude,” he said at a separate event in Pennsylvania.


Uncivil discourse is the effect of trump.

I was listening to KSL1160 on the way to work this morning and they had a reporter on talking about Liz Cheney giving a speech at a Kamala Harris event. Then the morning show hosts asked the reporter if trump had responded and before she answered I was thinking "duh, of course he responded. He never shuts up. He is thin skinned, insecure and petty and has to complain about everything" and of course the reporter said he did post about it on truth social and called her multiple names. Its the trump way.
 
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fishonjazz said:
Ya I had a Silverado up until 2022 to pull my trailer.
I hated driving it though and hated parking it and hated that it took up so much of my garage to the point that I decided to downsize to a pop up trailer and sell my Silverado. So now I drive a 4runner which I like much much better. I have so much more room in my garage now. Plus I love that I can go on overnight fishing trips and sleep in the 4runner. Just went on one earlier this week (Monday night) and I'm taking the family camping in the popup next week. (I do miss our old trailer though. Don't miss the Silverado at all)

Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk
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Nothing beats sleeping in the boat on the river in wilderness though;)
 

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Sardines said:
I can sound super negative about trucks, but I absolutely understand that they are the thing you need to do certain other things. No criticism at all. And I assume some people who need a truck for something then get one and it becomes their everyday car because they spent their car money on that truck. It makes sense. But I will say, consider the guy I mentioned, get a very cheap beater car for A to B and picking up some fast food if the other option is a truck. I get that a lot of people don't want to be seen in a super crappy car. Those aren't people I care about.
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I'm mostly in your camp. There are definitely situations where a truck makes sense. But even then, it almost never makes any sense to use the huge truck to make a run to Walmart or whatever and block parking for other people and generally be a nuisance just to be seen in your huge truck.
 
I have a truck because I like driving trucks. I drove a little economy car for my whole life, but whenever I borrowed a friend's truck for various reasons I always liked the way it felt. I also like having a truck to be able to haul whatever I need or whatever my friends or neighbors need. Some people dislike this aspect of owning a truck, but I like to help people. I compromised on size and fuel economy by getting a small truck (Tacoma). For me it fits my needs and wants perfectly. If there were good options when I bought my truck on an electric/hybrid truck, I would have considered it.

I do like living in a country where people are able to choose whatever vehicle fits them best. I also think we need to do more to reduce carbon emissions. Those two statements are at odds with each other and I don't have a perfect solution, but I do feel like the more we can do to encourage people to choose electric vehicles is the right way to handle the situation. I just got back from China where electric vehicles are much more common because the cost is the same or cheaper than a gas vehicle there.
 
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SoberasHotRod said:
I have a truck because I like driving trucks. I drove a little economy car for my whole life, but whenever I borrowed a friend's truck for various reasons I always liked the way it felt. I also like having a truck to be able to haul whatever I need or whatever my friends or neighbors need. Some people dislike this aspect of owning a truck, but I like to help people. I compromised on size and fuel economy by getting a small truck (Tacoma). For me it fits my needs and wants perfectly. If there were good options when I bought my truck on an electric/hybrid truck, I would have considered it.

I do like living in a country where people are able to choose whatever vehicle fits them best. I also think we need to do more to reduce carbon emissions. Those two statements are at odds with each other and I don't have a perfect solution, but I do feel like the more we can do to encourage people to choose electric vehicles is the right way to handle the situation. I just got back from China where electric vehicles are much more common because the cost is the same or cheaper than a gas vehicle there.
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It’s easy to encourage people to do what we feel is rights, tax them. Sin tax gasoline. Refund it to farmers, truckers, whatever. But if you want to spew unburned carbon in the Honda Civic’s window or roll coal on a cyclist because you hate them and want to impress your **** eating, confederate flag muscle shirt wearing buddies then at minimum you should have to think twice about it next time you pump. Hell, changing my water heaters cost an arm and a leg because of state efficiency requirements. You think student loans are bad? Wait till you have to replace a water heater and ask the bank for a 40 year HELOC cuz you aren’t sure you can make the 30 yr payment work. Can’t afford a casket and grave? Burn them! Ain’t no burning solution for water heaters. Makes no sense we can’t do the same with fuel.
 
idestroyedthetoilet said:
Sin tax gasoline.
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I don't believe in your religion and don't feel the need to appease your gods. Furthermore, I believe there should be a wall between church and state so that you can't enact a state-enforced punishment for acts that are an affront to your worship. IDGAF how true you think your magical sky god is. The faithful of all faiths think that. Keep your taxing of sin out of my government.
 
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