Jefferson has got to go
- Thread starter jimmy eat jazz
- Start date
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
I feel like our wing play, and outside shooting is a MUCH bigger concern than our offense "stagnating" when Al goes in. I'd say its our second biggest problem, after defense, whether its in the paint, or out in the perimeter. The Nuggets destroyed us in the paint, the Spurs killed us from long range. We shot 7% from three vs LA, and ~13% from three against the Spurs. We shot around 38% in Philly, and even better against the Nuggets (the problem with the Nuggets game, was that we got slaughtered on both the fast-break and the "Points in the Paint" disparity, which was a combination of poor PG defense, and even poorer defensive rotations). If we manage to get our defense running, and we can at least average 35% a game from 3, we will be a much better team. Problem is, those are two VERY big ifs.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
If he's not in the top five, who or what are?
1. Defensive play
2. Harris, or the lack of an identity on offense
3. Bell
4. Miles
5. Jefferson
6. Outside shooting
7. Corbin
Those are in no particular order but other than those seven, what else are we to consider? I love you LG but to so confidently say Jefferson is not one of out top five problems may be stretching things a bit.
Personally, i'd go...
1. Corbin
2. Defense
3. Harris
4. Outside shooting
5. Jefferson
6. Miles
7. Bell
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Jefferson supporter hear....
It's time to trade him.....
Why?
Kanter and Favors are more NBA ready then I thought they were, also Kanter seems to be a better defender then I thought he was. I'm disappointed Ty didn't give a better effort to having Millsap be are 6th man. Millsap and Al just isn't a good combination. For Millsap to be affective he needs his touches, he can create some from the pf spot and stretches the defense out, and is a good passer. Having Al with him takes away from that. Al doesn't fit in the offense as well as Millsap. Nothing against Al, but I feel the defense would be better, and he doesn't cater to what we do on offense.
It's time to trade him.....
Why?
Kanter and Favors are more NBA ready then I thought they were, also Kanter seems to be a better defender then I thought he was. I'm disappointed Ty didn't give a better effort to having Millsap be are 6th man. Millsap and Al just isn't a good combination. For Millsap to be affective he needs his touches, he can create some from the pf spot and stretches the defense out, and is a good passer. Having Al with him takes away from that. Al doesn't fit in the offense as well as Millsap. Nothing against Al, but I feel the defense would be better, and he doesn't cater to what we do on offense.
d@!!0n0rcutt
Well-Known Member
How do you guys not know if the wing play wouldn't be better if the ball was passed more and moved through the offense more. In that SLTrib article it states that the wings don't get nearly as many shots to put up so when they get an opportunity to shoot it is rushed because the wings Bell, Hayward, Howard, and Miles don't know when their shots would come again.
So my question is more of a statement in a question form, but how do we know whether or not having Al Jefferson on the court isn't the root to most of this team's deficiencies like interior defense, lack of rebounding effort, and flow of the offense, which all could cause the other players not to play to their full potential?
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
jefferson may be a product of us taking a lot of outside jumpers outside the context of the offense with the shot clock running down. With Jefferson in there is less movement on offense meaning the jump shots are forced and not good looks and out of rhythm.
Utah should use Jefferson as the Spurs now use Tim Duncan. Utah could model the offense after the Spurs with Harris in the Parker role and Hayward in the Ginobli role. It won't be as good as the Spurs offense now as Utah's pieces aren't as good, but it would help to speed up the game for the Jazz, give more freedom to the creators on the court, and mature Utah's youngin's. Jefferson could average 13pts and 9 rebounds as Duncan did last season.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Kanter could also do that
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
********. Ive seen Hayward drive into the paint and dish it out to a WIDE open man on the perimeter like 10 times this season, and they rarely ever make them. Watson, Bell and CJ are the definite culprits
There is a difference between "in the top 5" and "the top 5".
orangello
Well-Known Member
Wow, I didn't think that you would ever get off the Jefferson bandwagon. I am impressed that you are willing to say that already, this soon into the season. It takes a big person to say that. +1
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Here's a really good illustration why Jefferson should be traded or drastically have his role in the offense significantly reduced.
https://www.basketball-reference.co...omp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fga_per_mp
Huge link, but it's a list sorted by FGA/36, with true shooting percentage shown. Jefferson has the third highest shot rate, with a TS% of 43%. Yuck.
https://www.basketball-reference.co...omp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fga_per_mp
Huge link, but it's a list sorted by FGA/36, with true shooting percentage shown. Jefferson has the third highest shot rate, with a TS% of 43%. Yuck.
Especially when the game that Jefferson missed was (1) the only game the Jazz have played at home so far and (2) against the worst opponent the Jazz have played so far.
I'm all about using stats unfairly to condemn players (did you know that CJ is last on the team in FT% per Turnover per 48??), but c'mon.
orangello
Well-Known Member
So would it be fair to say that if the Jazz lose/get blown out tonight against the Hornets and Jefferson does what he always does that it would be time to give up on Jefferson altogether?
Last year he finished 29th in the league in shot rate, and the list of players ahead of him who had lower TS% (he finished .528) consisted of:
3) Michael Beasley (.510)
11) Jordan Crawford (.456)
14) Antawn Jamison (.516)
18) Aaron Brooks (.489)
21) Joe Johnson (.517)
22) CJ Miles (.507)
23) Marcus Thornton (.525)
So that's comforting.
Was it Ty's fault when Jefferson couldn't contribute to the offense when Sloan/Deron was here? Was it Ty's fault that Jefferson's stats exploded on a bad team?
Dude has never learned to play team ball. 8 years in at 26 years old is a bad time to start, and I somehow get the feeling that someone before now has tried and it simply hasn't worked.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Jefferson has got to go??
Please don't tell me he messed with the fro
Please don't tell me he messed with the fro
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
All chucking guards and Forwards who play from the outside, so it's not comforting. 53% is his peak since he became the main offensive threat (trade to Minnesota). 57% seems to be the norm for high volume players the past six years outside of Jefferson, McGrady, and Ellis.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Appreciate the honesty.
I think a shakeup is in order, and Al's 14 million could really be put to better use elsehwere, IMO. Just the same, our offense has much bigger problems that won't be solved just by getting rid of Al.
I really kinda wish Al would have sat out for several games, just so people could get over this idea that we're suddenly going to be a good offensive team without Al.
GVC
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that the Jazz are more able to play at a faster pace and get into their offense earlier when Al isn't on the floor. This leads to easier transition buckets and more time to find good looks in halfcourt sets. If the offense breaks down, however, the Jazz don't have any reliable options outside of Al. If the Jazz could get a guard or two who can knock down open shots and run the floor, I think the offense could be better without Al than with Al. CJ/Raja/Harris/Watson just don't fit the bill, and no one has any space to operate with any of them on the floor. With Josh injured, hopefully Burks gets a little more burn tonight.