Jon Stewart on white privilege (cc: unnamed posters... etc.)

[Deleted member 848]

OK, here's a pet peeve: the phrase "white privilege". I understand the effect and agree that it's real, but think "white privilege" is a horrible term for it. In my opinion it doesn't help draw attention to the issues that minorities face, but rather seems like it's too often being employed to scapegoat today's whites for the wrongs that past generations committed. And I've had friends and family members use it to silence individuals who have their own views on racial issues that are different than the liberal/progressive agenda (namely, me): "You only feel that way because of your white privilege". No, sorry, I feel that way because of giving reasoned consideration to the issues.

(That being said, I thought your chronic illness analogy was really interesting and probably accurate in a lot of ways.)

white privilege is a perfect term because it speaks to the privilege of whiteness in our current culture-- there's no better term to describe how perceived racial identity brings forth benefits, or privileges, in society. The fact that others weaponize it against you doesn't take anything away from the correctness and/or importance of the term. If ur white and u find it discomforting, I think more introspection needs to be done.


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JazzGal, I'm so sorry to hear about what you're dealing with. If I may ask, what was the final diagnosis that you received?

 

[colton]

white privilege is a perfect term because it speaks to the privilege of whiteness in our current culture-- there's no better term to describe how perceived racial identity brings forth benefits, or privileges, in society. The fact that others weaponize it against you doesn't take anything away from the correctness and/or importance of the term. If ur white and u find it discomforting, I think more introspection needs to be done.

I disagree. The term by its vary nature sets the current non-white situation as the standard, or expected treatment, and then implies whites get some added bonus on top of the expected treatment. What we really should be using is a term that sets the current white experience as the standard, and then emphasizes that many don't currently get that standard treatment. Because what we really need is for the goal to be the treatment of non-whites to become what the treatment of whites currently is, not the treatment of whites to become what the treatment of non-whites currently is. And I've done plenty of introspection, thank you very much.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I disagree. The term by its vary nature sets the current non-white situation as the standard, or expected treatment, and then implies whites get some added bonus on top of the expected treatment. What we really should be using is a term that sets the current white experience as the standard, and then emphasizes that many don't currently get that standard treatment. Because what we really need is for the goal to be the treatment of non-whites to become what the treatment of whites currently is, not the treatment of whites to become what the treatment of non-whites currently is. And I've done plenty of introspection, thank you very much.

Colton— when you say you prefer to transition from a terminology where whiteness is a privilege and other races aren’t— to whiteness is baseline and everything else falls short, what you’re doing is you’re obfuscating, and coddling white people in efforts (whether intentional or not) to not feeling guilty of how their skin tone is a societal advantage

 

[moevillini]

OK, here's a pet peeve: the phrase "white privilege". I understand the effect and agree that it's real, but think "white privilege" is a horrible term for it. In my opinion it doesn't help draw attention to the issues that minorities face, but rather seems like it's too often being employed to scapegoat today's whites for the wrongs that past generations committed. And I've had friends and family members use it to silence individuals who have their own views on racial issues that are different than the liberal/progressive agenda (namely, me): "You only feel that way because of your white privilege". No, sorry, I feel that way because of giving reasoned consideration to the issues.

(That being said, I thought your chronic illness analogy was really interesting and probably accurate in a lot of ways.)

white privilege is a perfect term because it speaks to the privilege of whiteness in our current culture-- there's no better term to describe how perceived racial identity brings forth benefits, or privileges, in society. The fact that others weaponize it against you doesn't take anything away from the correctness and/or importance of the term. If ur white and u find it discomforting, I think more introspection needs to be done.

I disagree. The term by its vary nature sets the current non-white situation as the standard, or expected treatment, and then implies whites get some added bonus on top of the expected treatment. What we really should be using is a term that sets the current white experience as the standard, and then emphasizes that many don't currently get that standard treatment. Because what we really need is for the goal to be the treatment of non-whites to become what the treatment of whites currently is, not the treatment of whites to become what the treatment of non-whites currently is. And I've done plenty of introspection, thank you very much.

I'm another who doesn't like the term "white privilege" - - mostly because I think the term "privilege" somewhat derails the concept of an "expected standard of treatment" and for many people elevates it to something along the lines of the concept of the "privileged few" - it tends to make people think that they are being lumped into a category with the Felicity Huffmans and Lori Loughlins of modern society

 

[Deleted member 848]

I'm another who doesn't like the term "white privilege" - - mostly because I think the term "privilege" somewhat derails the concept of an "expected standard of treatment" and for many people elevates it to something along the lines of the concept of the "privileged few" - it tends to make people think that they are being lumped into a category with the Felicity Huffmans and Lori Loughlins of modern society

But I think with any length of discussion, that can be deconstructed.

This is what I always say— “you’re applying for a competitive job. when trying to maximize ur chances of getting hired, which name would you prefer to put on your resume — Jack Faulder, or Muhammad El Hosseini? that’s white privilege.”

 

[Miggs]

But I think with any length of discussion, that can be deconstructed.

This is what I always say— “you’re applying for a competitive job. when trying to maximize ur chances of getting hired, which name would you prefer to put on your resume — Jack Faulder, or Muhammad El Hosseini? that’s white privilege.”

If Jack Faulder applied for a job in Iraq or Mongolia, would their chances of getting an interview be hurt based on their name?

 

[colton]

...what you’re doing is you’re obfuscating, and coddling white people in efforts (whether intentional or not) to not feeling guilty of how their skin tone is a societal advantage

See, that's exactly my point. Making white people feel guilty is exactly the wrong goal. Getting equality for minorities is the proper goal.

But anyway, this is a pet peeve thread, not a "discuss serious social issues" thread, so I'll refrain from commenting more on the topic. You can have the last word if you want.

 

[Deleted member 848]

See, that's exactly my point. Making white people feel guilty is exactly the wrong goal. Getting equality for minorities is the proper goal.

But anyway, this is a pet peeve thread, not a "discuss serious social issues" thread, so I'll refrain from commenting more on the topic. You can have the last word if you want.

my last word— making white people feel guilty is the right goal because white people are the ones who created and maintain white privilege— without shaming, change cannot occur. I am happy that this term has reached such a prominent level of discourse that it makes you uncomfortable. That, precisely, is the goal.

 

[Gameface]

my last word— making white people feel guilty is the right goal because white people are the ones who created and maintain white privilege— without shaming, change cannot occur. I am happy that this term has reached such a prominent level of discourse that it makes you uncomfortable. That, precisely, is the goal.

I'm with you. I am.

But I want you to understand where these other opinions are coming from.

I grew up in a minority white neighborhood.

In Utah.

Hopefully you get what I'm saying. If not, let me explain it. First, the obvious, my family was poor. But that's not what I'm hoping you understand, because that is the obvious part. I grew up with people who knew what "white privilege" was, and it wasn't us white kids who knew, it was the other kids. We were all poor. We all had disadvantages. All of us. But as you know, some of us were going to have a harder time shaking those disadvantages.

I'm doing pretty well. Not as well as you. But I'm happy I was able to escape the situation I grew up in.

My skin color helped me. It 100% did. ****, my last name helped me. I'm not sure which helped more. I do know I could have had the same name but a different skin color and my name wouldn't have helped me at all.

But what I want to tell you, dalamon, is that I did not grow up in "privilege" but I do know that I had privilege. But when you tell people, like me, that we have privilege they consider their lot in life, and they think of the people they've seen who were far more privileged than they were and they call BS on your assertion. They know that there are others far, far more privileged than they have ever been. So your message falls flat. They don't hear it. They see the people who have REAL (in their mind) privilege. And they dismiss you as someone who has no idea who they are or where they've been. And they are not wrong in that. You underestimate the experience of disadvantaged white people. ****, you seem often to pretty much dismiss it.

We should be on the same team. But you want to tell me (us) how privileged we are and kick us out of the discussion. You should be inviting us to the table. We're your friends. We have advantages you don't, but we also share some of the same disadvantages. And we can fight together, first to end the racial inequality, and second to end the class inequality.

If you don't want our friendship just keep doing what you're doing. If you do, we are here. We're your friends. Just extend your hand and we'll take it.

 

[Gameface]

Growing up I was always at the end of the lunch line. My last name started with a "Y" and the line was alphabetical. So I was good friends with another kid with the last name "Woodhead." But I was also good friends with another kid with the last name "Delgado." Why would my last name have anything to do with that? Well, if you got in trouble one of the primary punishments was to get sent to the end of the lunch line. Since I was the defaut end of the line that meant anyone who got in trouble actually had the massive dishonor of having to be behind me. "Lino," short for Marcelino, got sent to the end of the lunch line a lot. So he and Jeff Woodhead and I spent some time together. Lino was a really fun person. He joked around a lot. We had a good time at the end of lunch line.

I'm doing this extra personal thing this last little bit, so I'm going to be a little personal.

I had another friend who really wanted to see Top Gun for like the 1000th time. The local dollar theater, the "Arcade Theater" always did a double feature. So we went to see Top Gun and Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Lino actually came over to me and told me there was a girl who might be interested in me. Only, she only liked Mexican dudes, so I was going to have to pretend to be Mexican. I wasn't really pulling it off and didn't get he girl. That's sort of a side story. Anyway, if anyone went to see Ferris Bueller's Day Off in a theater, it was a FUN movie. Really fun. During the Parade part Lino got up and encouraged everyone else to get up and basically dance to the finale of the movie. It worked! The whole theatre got up and we all had a fantastic time. Thank you, Lino!

I saw Jeff Woodhead at Lagoon several years ago. He head something to tell me. Lino had been killed by police officers. Lino was one of the most positive, funny, intelligent people I knew growing up. He was a good person. I have no idea what happened when he was killed, but I know he made this world a better place.

 

[moevillini]

bump - time to get the Pet Peeves thread back to being just pet peeves!

Question - should I "move" the posts about white privilege to this thread? I'm thinking that might be a good thing to do. What do others think?

 

[One Brow]

I have no objection.