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[Jones]BREAKING: Jazz willing to engage Celtics in S&T talks: But Gordon Hayward must agree

  • Thread starter Deleted member 95
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BackHander said:
Well, Hayward's not making it happen guys. He just has to say "Do a Sign and Trade or I'm not signing". IMO he royally screwed us over 3 times.

1) Lying about the leak. If he tells DL(even in private) right then, we can make other moves. Not 100% convinced we couldn't have gotten Otto Porter. We'll see if they match. But even earlier we could have gotten Gallinari or someone else. We couldn't because we were waiting for Hayward.
2) The Tribune article - he really didn't say thank you. It was more of a "here are a cool few memories of Utah". Didn't even mention Gorbert. Bragged about Boston's winning culture in a Thank You article.
3) Not asking for a sign and trade. Chris Paul did it. You could too. But nope. He really must've been pissed off with us.

At this point he does deserve any backlash he gets.
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dunno about no.3 but the first two totally. Very much a sticking the middle finger at Utah. His agent still trying to stick to the story that he was undecided is just pure BS, same as KD last year. ffs there's nothing new they're going to learn in the "meetings" that they wouldn't have known. He just wanted to make it look like he really took Utah seriously to gain sympathy and it backfired on him bigtime. And his agent rang DL and he still hasn't been man enough to talk to him.

i think when he went to Charlotte he must have taken a few lessons with MJ on trying to craft a nice shiny storybook image, laced with insincerity.
 
BackHander said:
Well, Hayward's not making it happen guys. He just has to say "Do a Sign and Trade or I'm not signing". IMO he royally screwed us over 3 times.

1) Lying about the leak. If he tells DL(even in private) right then, we can make other moves. Not 100% convinced we couldn't have gotten Otto Porter. We'll see if they match. But even earlier we could have gotten Gallinari or someone else. We couldn't because we were waiting for Hayward.
2) The Tribune article - he really didn't say thank you. It was more of a "here are a cool few memories of Utah". Didn't even mention Gorbert. Bragged about Boston's winning culture in a Thank You article.
3) Not asking for a sign and trade. Chris Paul did it. You could too. But nope. He really must've been pissed off with us.

At this point he does deserve any backlash he gets.
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This is the stupidest **** ever. Hayward chose to leave. The leak happened and that sucked, but it doesnt mean he has to demand his new team gives away free assets.

**** Hayward for leaving, but I'm not going to be fake upset that a competing player isn't giving us handouts.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
For now, they only need to move one of those players to clear room for Haywood. Crowder is by far the most valuable, due to his contract. This idea that Utah had some kind of leverage here was just wrong.
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wow. Well, I guess I've gotten so jammed up in the details that I'm confused. This does not sound at all like the truth.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
For now, they only need to move one of those players to clear room for Haywood. Crowder is by far the most valuable, due to his contract. This idea that Utah had some kind of leverage here was just wrong.
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Possibly but Ainge is already viewed as almost a cheater amongst his peers. He has a ton of assets that he needs to cash in in the next few years. This could be his last chance to throw someone a bone. We don't know but it very well may be that Ainge didn't get Butler or George cuz nobody wants to deal with him.
I think Ainge is a man without friends in the circles that are most important to his job. Boston reporters aren't potential trade partners. From what I can tell DL is well liked around the league and considered to be reasonable. If Ainge can't get an honest deal done with him, if he jerks him around or holds his feet to the fire then he may be burning one bridge too many. Add onto that the Crowder situation and he could be seen as a ruthless prick to players that deserve better as well.

I think the Jazz have more leverage than the numbers suggest. Just like any profession there are politics involved that at times can matter just as much as if not more than numbers.
 
It would be nice to get Crowder, but if someone else does, the only difference it really will make for the Jazz in the long run is when they play the Celtics. I wouldn't give him anything for Crowder. Whatever the case, they need to get rid of him.
 
I think a slight edge over others is possible but I doubt he's worried much about image. Sure being known as someone good to work with doesn't hurt at all but if everyone likes working with you you are probably ending up on the short end of the deal all too often.

If he decides to cash in on his assets maybe a couple of teams turn him away but someone is going to deal with him. Holding a grudge against someone and not dealing when you have a chance to improve your franchise leads to nothing but your way out the door.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
It would be nice to get Crowder, but if someone else does, the only difference it really will make for the Jazz in the long run is when they play the Celtics. I wouldn't give him anything for Crowder. Whatever the case, they need to get rid of him.
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So you wouldn't give up anything for a player that can help the franchise that is on an extremely undervalued contract?
 
With Hayward not forcing a sign and trade, it is looking more and more that the 6 hour delay on the 4th of July was intentional to hurt the Jazz and freeze them out of the free agency period. Why the hate? He hates Mormons or the Utah culture? He felt screwed by his last contract? It seems malicious. If I was his agent, I would consider dropping him as that is pretty toxic stuff to do and will damage future relationships with the teams in the NBA.
 
At this point we don't really know what's holding up the sign and trade but the way you put it he is in a lose/lose situation.

You're asking him to say work out a s&t or I don't sign so the options are he either tells his new team to give up assets or he says he's going to sign and doesn't. That would just add to the hit he's already taken.
 
MattNie said:
I think a slight edge over others is possible but I doubt he's worried much about image. Sure being known as someone good to work with doesn't hurt at all but if everyone likes working with you you are probably ending up on the short end of the deal all too often.

If he decides to cash in on his assets maybe a couple of teams turn him away but someone is going to deal with him. Holding a grudge against someone and not dealing when you have a chance to improve your franchise leads to nothing but your way out the door.
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It makes future moves more expensive. Nobody wants to be the next chump screwed by Ainge and everybody wants to be the one to **** him.

I know I am not the only person here who has had to pretend I didn't know something, let someone win, or concede a tie. There are times when this is the best move. I think that right now for Ainge it is. I also think he is savvy enough to know that. Otherwise the discussion about a s&t probably never would have happened.

You want to be respected maybe even feared but you don't want to be a villain.
 
I agree with all of that but that's the nature of being on the winning side over and over. But it's just that someone wanting to screw him mentality that will always give him a trade partner
 
MattNie said:
I agree with all of that but that's the nature of being on the winning side over and over. But it's just that someone wanting to screw him mentality that will always give him a trade partner
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If I were a GM I'm asking more for a redundant asset when dealing with Ainge than anybody else.
 
The way I see it is the job of a gm is to listen to all offers no matter how much of a dbag you think the guys is. You may not counter offer and just laugh cause you don't think they will ever be reasonable but you should always answer the phone
 
Release the Kraken said:
Looks like another major disappointment, Ainge not satisfied with what the Jazz were willing to offer and is in contact with other trade partners - trade dormant: http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/07/boston_celtics_trade_rumors_20_259.html

And Rudy Gay is not longer available apparently. The list is getting shorter and shorter, better shoot Mbah a Moute an offer before it's too late DL.
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Why? The Jazz don't have to sign any of these guys. Better off rolling with what we got and trying out some D-League guys.
 
Release the Kraken said:
Looks like another major disappointment, Ainge not satisfied with what the Jazz were willing to offer and is in contact with other trade partners - trade dormant: http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/07/boston_celtics_trade_rumors_20_259.html

And Rudy Gay is not longer available apparently. The list is getting shorter and shorter, better shoot Mbah a Moute an offer before it's too late DL.
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For me it's well done DL for not panicking and doing something just for the sake of doing something. To me the writing was on the wall when I saw DL walking around doing interviews at SL rather than in the war room hashing out trade details.


I'd rather we stand pat and build around Exum, Hood, Mitchell, Gobert than get someone out of a knee jerk reaction to losing Hayward.
 
ONE LOVE said:
For me it's well done DL for not panicking and doing something just for the sake of doing something. To me the writing was on the wall when I saw DL walking around doing interviews at SL rather than in the war room hashing out trade details.


I'd rather we stand pat and build around Exum, Hood, Mitchell, Gobert than get someone out of a knee jerk reaction to losing Hayward.
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I would like to get Crowder but only at the right value. As long as it's cause they think he's asking too much and not because they are bitter I have no problems not doing a s&t
 
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