Joseph Smith taught that the moon was inhabited by people that live to be 1000 years old?

[sirkickyass]

Are you suggesting that Smith didn't practice polygamy?

Lets just say there is no definitive list of who it was that he married, no agreement about how many he married, no agreement about how many, if any, children he had via plural marriages, and no agreement about when he made pro-polygamy revelations and who he revealed them to.

In 1844 Smith himself denied being a polygamist. What I'm saying is that the evidence on Smith and polygamy is relatively mixed and it's something the church doesn't much comment on publicly because it goes back to some original problems with the mainstream LDS church having claim to being the true descendant church from Smith's foundation.

 

[Beantown]

Lets just say there is no definitive list of who it was that he married, no agreement about how many he married, no agreement about how many, if any, children he had via plural marriages, and no agreement about when he made pro-polygamy revelations and who he revealed them to.

In 1844 Smith himself denied being a polygamist. What I'm saying is that the evidence on Smith and polygamy is relatively mixed and it's something the church doesn't much comment on publicly because it goes back to some original problems with the mainstream LDS church having claim to being the true descendant church from Smith's foundation.

Do you have context or link to that 1844 denial? I was reading recently about Joseph Smith's son who was prophet of the other break off of the church. Supposedly when he would go west for missionary work he had run into a handful of woman who in fact claimed to have been married to his father. I found this really intersting. THere is some quote toward the end of his life saying that his father "probably' did participate in polygamy but no matter it was immoral.

Now in terms of Brigham I totally believe he was the one that set up the no blacks in the priesthood. I believe he was a very flawed prophet but also an amazing leader. But again we cannot view a prophet of anything more than a man. They too constantly sin and make mistakes. The thought that a prophet is perfect and almost seen as a Christ figure is what has really hurt the LDS membership.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

That gets a rating of 4 on the scale of "crazy **** religious people believe". It fits right in there between Karma and rib-based women.

It is no where near this "[To an atheist] the universe is the most exquisite masterpiece ever constructed by nobody." That gets as many stars as possible on the bat**** crazy things people believe.

I don't think that applies to most religions. It's even a stretch for Jesus/Paul given the uncertainty over their existence, let alone the details of their lives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9CC7qNZkOE

 

[One Brow]

You have to realize that the majority of all conversion came from the Book of Mormon.

Really? There were no missionaries, they just left books lying around all over?

It was Smith's charisma that converted those initial missionaries.

 

[One Brow]

It is no where near this "[To an atheist] the universe is the most exquisite masterpiece ever constructed by nobody." That gets as many stars as possible on the bat**** crazy things people believe.

Anyone who thinks the universe is "the most exquisite masterpiece" is definitely crazy.

 

[sirkickyass]

Do you have context or link to that 1844 denial?

If you have a copy of the LDS Church History you can find it. It takes place about one month before Joseph dies in response to polygamy charges brought by William Marks. In Volume 6, pages 410-411 we have his rebuttal to the charge:

Another indictment has been got up against me. It appears a holy prophet [William Law] has arisen up, and he has testified against me .... God knows, then, that the charges against me are false.

I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can.

This new holy prophet [William Law] has gone to Carthage and swore that I had told him that I was guilty of adultery. This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man dares not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this.... William Law ... swears that I have committed adultery. I wish the grand jury would tell me who they are—whether it will be a curse or blessing to me....

A man asked me whether the commandment was given that a man may have seven wives; and now the new prophet has charged me with adultery.... Wilson Law also swears that I told him I was guilty of adultery.... I have rattled chains before in a dungeon for truth's sake. I am innocent of all these charges, and you can bear witness of my innocence, for you know me yourselves.... What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago [he was charged with polygamy 14 years prior]; and I can prove them all perjurers

EDIT: Here's a full text that was available online. It's a bit of a rambler (as JS was) and goes on about a few other incidents as well. The material portion I've quoted above.

https://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/smithboastingandpolygamydenial.htm

I was reading recently about Joseph Smith's son who was prophet of the other break off of the church. Supposedly when he would go west for missionary work he had run into a handful of woman who in fact claimed to have been married to his father. I found this really intersting. THere is some quote toward the end of his life saying that his father "probably' did participate in polygamy but no matter it was immoral.

I've seen intimations that he made statements to that effect when JS3 was younger but that he hardened his position over time to saying that his father did not participate.

I believe he was a very flawed prophet but also an amazing leader.

Many dictators are described as "amazing leaders."

 

[Stifle Tower]

Of course. Anyone with an agenda follows that model. But don't mistake my rationale for an excuse. Personally, I think God is a lot less directly involved than mormon culture professes. I could go on for paragraphs about my disenchantment with mormon culture, but I'll spare you that soapbox.

Can't disagree with you there. If God were more directly involved, the world wouldn't be in the state it is in right now. Then again, that would conflict with the idea of agency. IMO, this world is kind of like a big corporation. The President and Founder has let his directives be known, but the actual day-to-day operation has been left up to others (i.e. all of us). At some point, HE's coming back to see what we've all done with what he left us.

 

[colton]

There's a FAIR Mormon article on it, but, to be honest, it doesn't exactly illuminate much of anything. It essentially reads "nothing to see here, move along."

So here's the FAIR article.
https://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Moon_inhabited

The reason why it says "nothing to see here" is because the article you linked to is apparently a third hand account from 37 years after Smith was killed. Pretty weak evidence that Joseph Smith taught anything of the kind.

 

[colton]

Lets just say there is no definitive list of who it was that he married, no agreement about how many he married, no agreement about how many, if any, children he had via plural marriages, and no agreement about when he made pro-polygamy revelations and who he revealed them to.

Did you get that bolded part from me in one of our past discussions? I've pointed that one out many times myself in discussions about polygamy, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone else ever bring it up. If not, it's interesting that we both have picked up on that independently.

In fact, there is no good evidence that Joseph Smith had any children with anyone but Emma. There is one kid I remember reading about who was told by his/her (I forget) mother that Smith was the father, but there's no corroboration for that. Given the lack of birth control available back then, and given the proof of Smith's fertility by way of the number of children he and Emma had, I've concluded that whatever polygamy was about, it WASN'T primarily about the sex.

That being said, I've read enough about the evidence for Smith's polygamy that I'm quite certain that Smith did actually marry many other women. I personally believe that many of those marriages were not sexual relationships, but I think it's quite possible (even probable) that some of them were.[/QUOTE]

 

[The Black Swordsman]

I am interested in the theory that the LDS religion was made by Freemasons to better the world :/. I am seriously interested in becoming a Freemason in the future. Even made a picture for it using microsoft paint

 

[franklin]

I don't think that applies to most religions. It's even a stretch for Jesus/Paul given the uncertainty over their existence, let alone the details of their lives.

The Jesus/Paul speculation aside, I think there is enough to be said about this. To me, a lot of movements are characterized by deep theological splits following a [most likely charismatic] founder's death. Christianity, Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Americanism.... they can all be defined by a chasm following death of the founder(s) and subsequent committe revival.

I see it as human nature for a populace to rally behind a strong leader and subsequently split following his* absence. Islam, Murricanism, Mormonism, Reaganism, & Christianity as a whole all sprang out of strong post-leadership committees. Jehovas W's are the outlier as they seemed to have grown out of multiple fractures before a true leader rose up to take the empty thrown as far as I can tell.



*historic, not sexist

 

[franklin]

I am interested in the theory that the LDS religion was made by Freemasons to better the world :/. I am seriously interested in becoming a Freemason in the future. Even made a picture for it using microsoft paint

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Being a Muslim, have you considered targeting a little closer to the cause by joining a fraternity hosted by one of your historic enemy? There are knights groups renounded for providing health insurance for widows.