Game Thread Jun 16, 2021 08:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Clippers - Game 5

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yes, lots of small mistakes at the margins that resulted in half the roster being made up of guys that are completely unplayable in the playoffs. Lots of scoring and shooting, very little height or athleticism. No real roster versatility. We have a roster incapable of adapting to certain styles of play if injuries or certain lineups take us out of what we want to do. This series was eye opening in that regard.

DL seems to go all in on whatever he does. In the Rubio/Crowder years, it was defense, defense, defense, now it is shooting, shooting, shooting. It’s honestly a bit like a 13 year old building a roster on 2k. The Matt Thomas move hit this home to me, the rationale must have been nothing more than MOAR SHOOTING.

We beed balance and versatility. Every team left in the conference finals will be balanced and versatile.

Fortunately, we should be able to make a trade or two to balance things out, because we have scoring and shooting to offer in spades to teams looking to trade.

He moves to the extremes and does so too late. The fact that it took him two years to decide the Favs/Rudy/Ricky thing was maybe not the best is a great example... the Crowder at the 4 lineups should have given him all the proof he needed.

Lets talk Matt Thomas... If you watch him he has a very ordinary release... maybe even a little slow. Its flat too... he's small... he will never be able get that thing off at a volume that is meaningful. If you watch him as a GM and then move to get him when he is not a guy you need at all I just have no idea why you should be getting a check for evaluating basketball things. He is a defensive liability of the highest magnitude as well. I'd love to say there is some master plan but when our front office does stupid **** and I wait to see the end game it more often than not does not manifest at all.

 

[One Brow]

You can't get bested by those three guys in those situations if you are the best defender in the world... you just can't.

No one ever has, or ever will, play a flawless quarter of defense in the NBA. To be clear, I am absolutely not saying Gobert didn't mess up on the plays you describe; I trust your description there.

I don't think supermax players need to be perfect. They do need to make their team much better, and I agree Gobert still has room to grow in the playoffs there.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No one ever has, or ever will, play a flawless quarter of defense in the NBA. To be clear, I am absolutely not saying Gobert didn't mess up on the plays you describe; I trust your description there.

I don't think supermax players need to be perfect. They do need to make their team much better, and I agree Gobert still has room to grow in the playoffs there.

Defense is tough... only really notice if you block a shot get a steal or get scored on. There were just opportunities for him to win those plays and he didn't.

Other guys had screw ups too. Don took a truly awful shot but the game was kinda in hand... he needs to realize his current limitations and not try some of those prayers.

I just think guys like Giannis, Rudy, Ben Simmons are incredibly talented and great but their limitations may lead to more playoff failings than they would for your standard great players. You can't always get Lebron, AD, Kawhi, KD that seemingly can do everything and aren't guys anyone can really stop... its tough. We also have to realize that their limitations aren't things that can always be corrected with schemes or different talent around them.

Even Jokic... his defensive short comings as a center and defensive anchor may limit him from getting a title. As an offensive force he might have more say in that then the guys that hang their hats on defense.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Sigh.. almost like what I have been saying last night through this morning.

 

[Ineptimusprime]

Sigh.. almost like what I have been saying last night through this morning.

Woof if this crap doesn't motivate this team to at least go out swinging tomorrow, I don't know what will.

If we win, the Clippers curse is real. The only way it happens is through a complete bed-wetting by the Clips. Maybe they fold under the pressure of a packed house. It won't happen, but a guy can dream.

 

[fishonjazz]

Wait, was there actually an argument taking place about whether gobert is good at defense?



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[Elizah Huge]

Wait, was there actually an argument taking place about whether gobert is good at defense?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

No, everyone knows he’s great at defense. He can get schemed around and his impact on the game is severely affected.

Multiple times last game he got iso’d and scored on. He was in no man’s land and got threes made on him without a contest. Couldn’t fight through a pick and a three was made wide open. They were actively trying to get him on a switch to attack him.

In essence, this shouldn’t happen to someone we will be paying 41M, 43M and 45M to in the next couple years. You want to be paid like a superstar you need to play like one especially when you got paid specifically for your defense. That stuff that happened can’t happen. That’s it.

Oh and our defensive numbers have been terrible with Rudy on the floor the last three games since Lue figured out the defense and made adjustments. We are 0-3 in this span and giving up 71.4% at the rim and 40% from three.

 

[Isaiah 1:13]

He is not impactfull in playoffs because teams change their gameplan to take him out of the paint. What if we tried something different that would actually make him play to his strenghts in defense even with small ball lineup? Like defending zone for stretches? Quin refuses to adjust for playoffs, he has been playing the same D from pre-season when we should have tried something different. After 2 straight losses why not change tactics? Why not try different Lineups? or Even players..
Keep Quin for regular season and get anotehr coach for playoffs, he is just too stubborn and non creative.

Id have to agree that when it comes to playoff basketball Snyder is a mediocre coach. Gobert went 6-8 last night, as usual best on the team. For most of the night (41 minutes) his counterpart was Batun as Lu attacked us with his small ball lineup. So why the paucity of plays for Gobert - when the biggest guy they have out there is 6’9” where are the alley-oops? I mean if you’re not going to counter their move and instead insist on jacking up 50 threes to their 42, why not give your free agent stretch 5 (Ilyosova) a shot?

I agree that Snyder is all about compiling wins in the regular season to the detriment of team development. Instead of load management he runs guys into the ground till they can’t perform anymore (Conley, Mitchell). Our deep bench doesn’t even know what real game minutes look like. Aside from the experience on their bench like Rondo, cousins and Patterson compare what Terrance Mann gives them opposed to Oni. He plays with a swagger and self-assurance our young guys have not had the opportunity to learn on this team.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Rudy is great. But the problem is he is like 75 percent of our defense. It's like putting Dame on a team with defensive specialists who cant shoot like Shaq Harrison etc and judge him when he basically doesn't have any spacing at all and has to score 40 every game. Of course it would be easier to scheme against him than, double team him etc. However good one guy is you can always scheme against him.

Best post of the thread honestly.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Wait, was there actually an argument taking place about whether gobert is good at defense?



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Apparently some fans think he’s been “exposed” and in order for the jazz to win a chip, we need to trade him for more offensive small guys so we can be the rockets team that won so many chips over the last decade.

yeah it makes no sense to me either.

Had the Jazz drafted McDaniels instead of Doka and signed Austin Rivers, we’d be having a completely different conversation right now. Hell, had Conley never gotten hurt in game 5, we’d probably be having a different conversation right now. We knew wing defenders, athleticism, and PG were issues last offseason. Did we do anything to address them?

 

[Elizah Huge]

Apparently some fans think he’s been “exposed” and in order for the jazz to win a chip, we need to trade him for more offensive small guys so we can be the rockets team that won so many chips over the last decade.

Based on that idiotic take which team the last decade won a ring with their second best player being their offensively limited Center who can get schemed against on defense?

 

[Elizah Huge]

Rudy is great. But the problem is he is like 75 percent of our defense. It's like putting Dame on a team with defensive specialists who cant shoot like Shaq Harrison etc and judge him when he basically doesn't have any spacing at all and has to score 40 every game. Of course it would be easier to scheme against him than, double team him etc. However good one guy is you can always scheme against him.

You’re missing the part where the defense is literally schemed to Gobert. Yeah, it would be like Lillard dropping 40+ every night and them winning a bunch of games. They set up beautiful offense that funnels through him. Then in the playoffs they throw some different stuff at him like double teams and switching then he became offensively limited. Funny how you left that part out.