Kaep

[Stoked]

To take this a different direction.

Read an interesting report about the protests over the pipeline up in the Dakotas. Over 60 tribes are now represented on site, 200ish more have released statements of solidarity and other social groups (BLM for example) have representation on site as well. Could this be the spark that finally starts to connect all this unaffiliated groups that already share common ground? Groups that should have been reaching out in solidarity and support from the beginning? Or do you think it will stay mostly unconnected and fall short of spurring societal change?

 

[Stoked]

He's basically saying the collective majority wants these protests to be unseen and unheard so they don't have to think about it or act on it and go on with life as if nothing happened.

I certainly feel that there is a healthy element of that. But certainly not all.

Also there is a difference between not liking how something is done and disagreeing, or agreeing, with what that something is trying to point to.

The whole dismissal of blacks protesting how we want is disingenuous IMO. A person don't have to like every manner of protest. They can be offended all they want at what ever protest they want for whatever reason they want. It doesn't change someone else's right to protest how they want over what they want whenever they want. A right most have absolutely defended on here. And if someone was offended, so what? They'll get over it.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

If they wanted them unseen and unheard they wouldn't be talking about them. The protest is getting massive attention. As far as I can tell, though, it's not really doing much to solve any underlying problem. I hope that next time one of these protestors explains what they are protesting they will give us the stats and tell us what they believe ought to be done rather than just speaking in generalities.

So, then to make sure I understand, social protests are not valid unless they come complete with fully fleshed out talking points about specific policy reforms?

You do realize that there's a difference between social consciousness raising and policymaking, each with its own purpose? Sometimes the overlap, often they do not.

I find the spectable of people belonging to the existing power structure constantly prescribing the terms, forms and aims of social protest to those outside the existing power structure to be a source of both constant befuddlement and constant amusement.

Most befuddling and most amusing of all is when the power structure dictates to the disempowered to limit the terms, forms and aims of their social protest in such a way as to keep from offending or hurting the feelings of those in power.

 

[Jazz and Utes]

Watching Kaep before the game was priceless, he was signing autos for the fans, taking pics etc. I wonder if he was thinking hey this is what it was like when I use to play!

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

So, then to make sure I understand, social protests are not valid unless they come complete with fully fleshed out talking points about specific policy reforms?

You do realize that there's a difference between social consciousness raising and policymaking, each with its own purpose? Sometimes the overlap, often they do not.

I find the spectable of people belonging to the existing power structure constantly prescribing the terms, forms and aims of social protest to those outside the existing power structure to be a source of both constant befuddlement and constant amusement.

Most befuddling and most amusing of all is when the power structure dictates to the disempowered to limit the terms, forms and aims of their social protest in such a way as to keep from offending or hurting the feelings of those in power.

Bla bla bla. Are you saying that you disagree that it would be a good idea for them to clarify what they are trying to accomplish? That's the only point I'm arguing so I don't know what you're going on about.

 

[Just Ted]

fine to protest... crappy protest... gotta know what you want at the end. How is this making a difference if he doesn't take the next step and put together a group that will actually work for change... Not just make a small stand and then disappear after a couple of months, then it is all for naught.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Bla bla bla. Are you saying that you disagree that it would be a good idea for them to clarify what they are trying to accomplish? That's the only point I'm arguing so I don't know what you're going on about.

I disagree witht the premise implied in your post that social protest needs to be accmpanied by a specific set of policy prescriptions. I find this to be an oft-used tactic employed to discredit the act of social protest. It's not Kaep's responsibility to prescribe policy solutions; there's no 'How To' manual for social protest that everhone is obligated to agree to. His objective was to protest what he saw as inequities in how the US polices communities of color, and perhaps to raise consciousness about them, and perhaps to facilitate discussion about them. He purpose clearly is not to produce a White Paper on specific policy recommendations, and I fail to see why, if he does not inlcude this among his list of objectives, this somehow invalidates what he's doing.

As for the Bla bla bla, this is precisely what you, and so many others are doing: prescribing the pararmaters of social protest, from the comfort of belonging to the power group, to those who are outside the power group. You may not want to hear it, but you should at least be cognizant that this is what you're doing.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I disagree witht the premise implied in your post that social protest needs to be accmpanied by a specific set of policy prescriptions. I find this to be an oft-used tactic employed to discredit the act of social protest. It's not Kaep's responsibility to prescribe policy solutions; there's no 'How To' manual for social protest that everhone is obligated to agree to. His objective was to protest what he saw as inequities in how the US polices communities of color, and perhaps to raise consciousness about them, and perhaps to facilitate discussion about them. He purpose clearly is not to produce a White Paper on specific policy recommendations, and I fail to see why, if he does not inlcude this among his list of objectives, this somehow invalidates what he's doing.

As for the Bla bla bla, this is precisely what you, and so many others are doing: prescribing the pararmaters of social protest, from the comfort of belonging to the power group, to those who are outside the power group. You may not want to hear it, but you should at least be cognizant that this is what you're doing.

I only read the first sentence of your reply. If you believe I'm saying they don't have the right to protest that's incorrect. They can protest all they want. If they want to accomplishing anything with their protest I think it would be a good idea to figure out what their goals are. The end.

 

[Stoked]

I disagree witht the premise implied in your post that social protest needs to be accmpanied by a specific set of policy prescriptions. I find this to be an oft-used tactic employed to discredit the act of social protest. It's not Kaep's responsibility to prescribe policy solutions; there's no 'How To' manual for social protest that everhone is obligated to agree to. His objective was to protest what he saw as inequities in how the US polices communities of color, and perhaps to raise consciousness about them, and perhaps to facilitate discussion about them. He purpose clearly is not to produce a White Paper on specific policy recommendations, and I fail to see why, if he does not inlcude this among his list of objectives, this somehow invalidates what he's doing.

As for the Bla bla bla, this is precisely what you, and so many others are doing: prescribing the pararmaters of social protest, from the comfort of belonging to the power group, to those who are outside the power group. You may not want to hear it, but you should at least be cognizant that this is what you're doing.

That is your opinion of what is happening.

My opinion is that a bunch of different people are talking about an issue and the manner it was raised. Some agree completely, some in part and some not at all. In that respect Kaep's protest has been very successful.

Why not just call racism on anyone disagreeing at all like you want to? (if we are going with what we feel is implied)

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I only read the first sentence of your reply. If you believe I'm saying they don't have the right to protest that's incorrect. They can protest all they want. If they want to accomplishing anything with their protest I think it would be a good idea to figure out what their goals are. The end.

I don't believe at all that you're saying Kaep, or anyone else, doesn't have the right to protest. The issue here is that you, and others, are prescribing/dictating the parameters (methods, aims, etc.) of that protest. Kaep is protesting against social inequities imposed on people of color by existing social/ political/legal/etc. power stuctures, so I find the spectacle of people beloninging to those power structures to presume to dictate that parameters of the protest to be yet another example of their wanting to impose their will on the disempowered. Plus, I find laughable the notion that social potest by those outside of the power structure should avoid giving offense to those beloning to the power strucure, or to avoid hurting their feelings. Rich stuff.

 

[Gameface]

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

fine to protest... crappy protest... gotta know what you want at the end. How is this making a difference if he doesn't take the next step and put together a group that will actually work for change... Not just make a small stand and then disappear after a couple of months, then it is all for naught.

If u listened to Kaep's post game coments u wouldn't have had to waste your time. First he's donating money to these causes second, last night he made mention as to talking to different groups as to formulate plan of action and to continue to educate himself as to what he can do to affect change.


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